Derwin Gray
16 min read ⭑
“The Father wants us to depend on Jesus for the bread of life, for all of our needs. The Father wants us to experience forgiveness, love, and mercy. You know why? So that we can love our enemies.”
The following is a transcript of a live interview. Responses have been edited and condensed for brevity and clarity.
QUESTION #1: ACQUAINT
There's much more to food than palate and preference. How does a go-to meal at your favorite hometown restaurant reveal the true you behind the web bio?
I am a proud native Texan, but specifically, I grew up on the west side of San Antonio, Texas. My friends were predominantly Mexican and Black—and every Wednesday in the San Antonio Independent School District, it was cheese enchiladas with rice and beans. And so even now, I treat myself at least once every six weeks to that dish. So I suppose the true meaning behind the web bio is some cheese enchiladas, rice, and beans, with a side of guacamole and chips. That's San Antonio, Texas.
Not only is it good, but it reminds me of my hometown. It reminds me of the river walk. It reminds me of the Alamo. It reminds me of my friends growing up. I think that God uses food not only to nourish our souls but also to remind us of his faithfulness.
Derwin Gray
QUESTION #2: REVEAL
We’ve all got quirky proclivities and out-of-the-way interests. So, what are yours? What so-called "nonspiritual" activities do you love and help you find spiritual renewal?
So I have an ear obsession. If I get to know you really well, I will rub the top of your ear. As a little boy, when my dad was around, I would play with his ears. When I met my wife, Vicki, I would play with her ears. And—I think this is hilarious—as a former NFL player, I had a teammate who would sit by me when we'd watch films. It would be dark while we’re watching these films, so he would let me play with his ear while we’re preparing for an NFL football game.
I find it hilarious because we’re these big, huge, strong, fast, manly men, and yet I'm playing with his ear because I find it soothing, and he's sitting there letting me.
QUESTION #3: CONFESS
Every superhero has a weakness. Every human too. We're just good at faking it. But who are we kidding? We’re broken and in this thing together. So, what’s your kryptonite and how do you hide it?
My kryptonite is fear of abandonment. I love my family, but the bottom line is that we're all born into a fallen world. People are broken, and hurt people hurt people. My mom was 16 when she got pregnant with me, and my dad was 18—so they were 17 and 19 when I was born. Because both of them struggled with various issues, my grandmother primarily raised me. I remember, as a little boy, thinking, Why isn't my mom around more? Why isn't my dad around? In high school, my teammates and I would make fun of this one kid on our team whose dad was at every practice. The real reason we would make fun of him? We were secretly envious of him because our dads didn't come to practice.
For years, one of the ways I covered up the fear of abandonment is by thinking, Well, if I'm good enough, people will never leave me. That mentality followed me into my sports career. As a football player, I thought, If I'm good enough, the fans will love me. If I'm good enough, I'll go to the NFL. And if I'm good enough, no one will ever leave me.
Ultimately, when I came to Jesus on August 2, 1997, it hit me that I would never be good enough and that Jesus himself is my “good enough.” That if everybody abandons me, his Father will never leave me, his Father will never forsake me. I realized I don't have to live up to some self-imposed standard to make my father love me because Jesus met the Father’s standards for me. So now, when I find myself trying to be good enough for people to love me, to be good enough for people to like me, I have to remind myself I am not what other people think—I am who God says I am. And I am a beloved child of God, in Christ Jesus, because of Christ Jesus. God the Father loves me the way he loves Jesus. And that's a gift I could not achieve—it's a gift I could only receive. I want to unwrap that gift of God's grace every day.
QUESTION #4: FIRE UP
Tell us about your toil. How are you investing your professional time right now? What’s your obsession? And why should it be ours?
My obsession starts with this unstoppable reality: There's a God who loves me. And He doesn't love a better version of me—he loves the me that is broken. He loves the me that is insecure. He loves the me that I am. And upon the cross, He didn't say, “Derwin, I'm going to love you when you get better.” He says through the cross, “I love you now, so you can get better.” So I want people to be passionate about Jesus. If you fly airplanes, if you're an entrepreneur, if you’re a stay-at-home mom or dad, whatever you do, all of life is God's playground to express his love through us. And one of the ways we tap into God's love is through this mysterious gift we have called prayer.
If we’re honest, prayer can be challenging and confusing for a lot of us. Often, when we feel abandoned, betrayed, or anxious, we don’t know how to pray—or even what words to say. And sometimes, if we’re really being honest, it can feel like there’s no one on the other side.
I’ve been there. And that’s actually why I wrote my latest book, God, Do You Hear Me?: Discover the Prayer God Always Answers. The book takes you through the most famous prayer in the Bible, the Lord’s Prayer, and makes it practical. My goal is to communicate the lessons God has taught me in learning and living this incredible prayer.
You see, 2,000 years ago, Jesus’ Jewish disciples said, Hey, Rabbi, will you teach us to pray? And Jesus taught them what's commonly known as the Lord's Prayer, which is, “Our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name. Your Kingdom come, your will be done, on earth as in heaven. Give us today our daily bread. Forgive us our sins, as we forgive those who sin against us. Lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil” (see Luke 11:1-4). And here's the genius of Jesus behind the Lord's Prayer—every line is actually teaching about Jesus himself. So if a person didn’t know who Jesus was, they could learn about him through the Lord's Prayer.
Think about the first line—Jesus and the Father had this intimate relationship of love. Jesus honored his Father's name with his allegiance, and he embodied the Kingdom of God. The term “Kingdom of God” can be very elusive, but in essence, the Kingdom of God looks like Jesus when he forgives sins. The Kingdom of God looks like Jesus when he fights for justice. The Kingdom of God looks like Jesus when he forgives a woman caught in adultery, when he heals the sick, when he dies on the cross, and when he rises again. The Kingdom of God is Jesus, and then Jesus is the bread of life—he provides for our emotional, spiritual, physical, and mental needs. Jesus is the one who gives us forgiveness, so we can receive forgiveness from God, and give away that forgiveness. And then ultimately, Jesus gives us the power to defeat sin, death, and evil.
Now, let me pause here and say—this is so important—that we often view sin somewhat flippantly. We tend to think, Okay, I did something bad. But in reality, sin is saying, God, I'm choosing to build my own kingdom instead of yours. Another way to say it is: God, I'm choosing to be less than what you created me to be. The reality is (and I know not everyone may believe in this), one of the Bible’s core teachings is that there are dark forces of evil that want to derail and destroy human beings. If you don't believe that, go to places where there's sex trafficking of little children, go to Afghanistan, or go to some parts of the world, like in Philadelphia, that are called zombie zones because people are like zombies on heroin. There are some dark, malevolent places in the world. And when Jesus died on the cross and when he rose again, he gave us the power to defeat those dark forces. But this world of ours is never going to be perfect until Jesus returns and establishes his kingdom here on Earth.
So first of all, the Lord's Prayer teaches us about Jesus’ life. And second of all, it’s the prayer that God the Father always answers because it’s his will for our lives. The Father wants us to know his love. The Father wants us to have allegiance to him. The Father wants us to be conduits of this Kingdom on Earth. The Father wants us to depend on Jesus for the bread of life, for all of our needs. The Father wants us to experience forgiveness, love, and mercy. You know why? So that we can love our enemies. Jesus said in Matthew 5:44, “But I tell you, love your enemies.” That kind of love isn’t of this world—that’s a heavenly kind of love.
Ultimately, God doesn't want us to be less than what he's created us to be, so he gives us the power of Jesus through his Spirit to no longer give in to the temptations of dark forces. We give in to the love of God to display God's grace to a world that needs it. So the Lord's Prayer isn't just the mantra we pray. It is a teaching about Jesus, so we love him more. And then it moves us to understand and embrace God's will for our lives. The Lord's Prayer is portable. What do I mean by that? Simply this: regardless of whatever your occupation is, the Lord's Prayer is the heartbeat that bleeds and beats the power of Jesus' blood through your life.
QUESTION #5: BOOST
Cashiers, CEOs, contractors, or customer service reps, we all need grace flowing into us and back out into the world. How does the Holy Spirit invigorate your work? And how do you know it's God when it happens?
That's a great question! One of the jokes in our family is we don't go to Chick-fil-A because we're hungry. We go to Chick-fil-A because they treat us nicely. That says something about Christianity in our culture today. The bar for being a Christian is now so low that, if you're nice and kind instead of angry, people say, “Oh, my gosh! This person is so different!” That's really sad. That's normal Christianity when we walk in the Spirit.
The Apostle Paul tells us in Galatians 5:16-25 that if we walk in the Spirit, we will produce the fruit of the Spirit. To walk in the Spirit simply means that we set our minds and hearts on Jesus and what he's done. In that attitude, we say, “God, live through me.” The fruit of the spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, gentleness, faithfulness, and self-control. God wants to create these characteristics in us and through us, but it’s difficult for us when we face the pressure of real life. That’s why we have to be intentional about setting our minds on Jesus.
Apostle Paul understood this, which is why he told us to “pray without ceasing” (1 Thessalonians 5:17, MEV). This doesn't mean we have to literally pray nonstop. What it means is that we're constantly thinking about Jesus and bringing him into our day-to-day moments. We’re saying, “Jesus, I need you if I’m going to be kind to this person because they're being really rude. Jesus, I need you in order to forgive this employee because they're not being kind. Jesus, I need you to give me wisdom in how to help in this dispute. Jesus, I got bills to pay and I got kids in college, but I am not going to overcharge this customer. Jesus, I can give this person a loan at a higher interest rate, but I'm going to give them the best interest rate.”
We have to constantly be intentional about asking Jesus to be gracious to us and kind to us. We need to live with a mindset that says, “God, I can't do this, but I know you can.”
QUESTION #6: inspire
Scripture and tradition beckon us into the rich and varied actions that open our hearts to the presence of God. So, spill it, which spiritual practice is workin' best for you right now?
I didn't grow up in church. I actually came to faith at about 25 or 26 years old through a teammate. His name was Steve Grant, but his nickname was “the Naked Preacher” because every day after practice, he'd take a shower, dry off, wrap a towel around his waist, get his Bible, and ask my teammates, “Do you know Jesus?” I was thinking, Bro, do you know you're half-naked? It was just the strangest thing! But he wasn't overbearing. He was kind. He was compassionate. My teammates were always in his locker when they needed advice. And so one day, he asked me, “Gray, do you know Jesus?”
That question began a five-year roller coaster of my life falling apart. Externally, I was doing great, but I couldn't love my wife the way she deserved. It was hard to forgive myself. I couldn’t forgive my dad. I was afraid of who I would be when my NFL career was over.
Eventually, though, I came to know Jesus on August 2, 1997, in a small dorm room in Anderson, Indiana. (Anderson University was my fifth-year NFL training camp.) It happened right after lunchtime while I was walking to my dorm room. I just felt this giant chasm in my soul. I called my wife and said, “I want to be more committed to you, and I want to be committed to Jesus.” And that's when I was born again! I felt the divine love. I felt going from death to life. I sharing all this to say that I never knew that there was a secular-sacred divide. I never knew that when I played football, I was supposed to leave Jesus in the church building. I never knew I was supposed to go without him all week long except Sunday.
I remember one game in particular where I brought Jesus onto the field. We were playing the Tampa Bay Buccaneers. I was on defense and I came in for what's called a safety blitz. All you need to know is that my job was to sack the quarterback. Well, this lineman saw me coming in, and he hit me pretty hard to block me. Then he started cussing me out. At this point, I was just recently saved, so as he's cussing me out, I'm running next to him, saying, “Bro, Jesus loves you so much. Jesus will forgive your sins. Let me tell you how much Jesus loves you, bro. On the cross, he took your place.” While I'm running next to him, he's cussing me out, and he kicks me in the butt. As funny as it was, the entire experience goes to show how I had no idea that there were Christians who believed that Sunday is for Jesus and the other six days of the week were for secular work.
The word secular means “without God.” And if I can reach into my scholar bag, the idea of a secular-sacred divide is actually a product of the Western Enlightenment. The Western Enlightenment was started by a Christian by the name of Rene Descartes, who famously said, “I think, therefore I am.” He was trying to combat atheism, but what he did is make human beings the center of knowledge. Before the Enlightenment, instead of “I think, therefore I am,” the prevailing idea was “Because of the great I AM, we are.” So as a result of the Enlightenment, a mindset arose that secular things are for the week and sacred things are for the weekend. And unfortunately, many Christians have bought into that deception.
The truth is, if you're a follower of Jesus, the Bible says you are a temple of the Holy Spirit. Jews and Gentiles in the first century believed that their god (or gods) lived in a temple. But now, in Christ, wherever you go, God goes—because you are his temple. Think about that. You are his temple. Wherever you are is where he is. You are sacred. Everything that your hands touch is sacred. Everything that you do is sacred. That's why Ephesians 2:10 says, “For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them” (ESV). Everything we touch is sacred because we are a temple of the Holy Spirit, so we don't divide life into secular and sacred. Going out on a date is worship. Washing the car is worship. Eating dinner is worship. The only thing that's not worship is sin.
QUESTION #7: FOCUS
Our email subscribers get free ebooks featuring our favorite resources—lots of things that have truly impacted our faith lives. But you know about some really great stuff, too. What are some resources that have impacted you?
There's a book that I read called, Conformed to His Image, Revised Edition: Biblical, Practical Approaches to Spiritual Formation, by Kenneth D. Boa. It's a book on spiritual practices that has been very foundational for me.
Mere Christianity by C.S. Lewis has also impacted me in multiple ways over the years. The first time that I read it, I appreciated not only the intellectual rigor with which he wrote the book but also the questions he was answering and the context he was writing in. After all, the book is based on a series of BBC radio talks he recorded during World War II. World War II blew up the idea that the world was getting better and that there was a better place. And so C.S. Lewis came on the scene with Mere Christianity and gave a beautiful apologetic of who Jesus is and why he is the best option not only for your head but also for your heart. One of his sayings is, “If you feel like you were created for another world, it's because you are.”
Lastly, there's a free Bible commentary online by a gentleman called R.J. Utley, and it's so amazing. I use R.J. Utley’s commentaries as I'm reading through the Bible—not just for sermon prep but also for daily Bible reading. When I have questions, I like to read his commentary. He understands the first century, the second temple, and the Jewish world. That's what I got my doctorate in under Scott McKnight—the settings in which Christianity emerged. And so it goes further back than simply the Reformation, but the ancient origins of Christianity rooted in the Old Testament. Jesus himself is the fulfillment of the Old Testament. It was always pointing to him as the new and greater Israel, the better Adam, and the head of this new family that belongs to his Father.
We all have things we cling to to survive (or thrive) in tough times. Name one resource you’ve found indispensable in this current season—and tell us what it's done for you.
Older, wiser Christians who have been able to pour their experience with Jesus into me have been indispensable. I think that, as a pastor, you're always pouring your life into people. But it's such a blessing when you have older people who pour their life into you and are willing to have the good, hard conversations to help you be who the Lord has called and created you to be.
I have so many older, wiser friends who pour into me—whether they're pastors or just older people. There's something about living life with Jesus for a long time that helps you learn to trust him even when the seas are turbulent and the wind is howling. One of the things my grandmother—who passed away in 2006—would always tell me is, “Baby, it's going to be all right.” Older Christians can say, “Yeah, I've been through that. I’ve experienced that, and baby, it's going to be all right.”
QUESTION #8: dream
God is continually stirring new things in each of us. So, give us the scoop! What’s beginning to stir in you but not yet fully awakened? What can we expect from you in the future?
I want to continue to grow as a disciple of Jesus. I want to be a better husband, to love and nurture my wife. I want to be a better husband and father to encourage and support and be a source of wisdom and love to my kids. But I also want to shepherd Transformation Church faithfully with tons of bold faith that reflects that Jesus did rise from the dead, that he does love people, and that his Kingdom can come to Earth as it is in heaven. I want to lead with that type of faith that makes Jesus say, “Wow, my kids actually believe, and I can still do great things through them.”
Have you ever tried to pray but had no idea what to say? Where to start? How to connect with God?
We’ve all been there. Prayer can easily feel intimidating when we think about the fact that we’re speaking with the God who created the universe with his very words, who knows every single star by name, and who lives in “unapproachable light” (see 1 Timothy 6:16).
But just as Derwin said in his interview, God isn’t just the Creator of the universe—he’s also our Father. The one who gave up his own Son so he could restore our relationship with him.
Because of that truth, it’s okay when we don’t know the right words to say. It’s okay when we feel small. And it’s okay when we feel overwhelmed—because when we don’t know how to pray, the Holy Spirit’s love will fill in the gaps.
“Likewise, the Spirit helps us in our weaknesses, for we do not know what to pray for as we ought, but the Spirit Himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words” (Romans 8:26, MEV).
So the next time we find ourselves feeling stuck in prayer, let’s start there—resting in God’s unconditional love and trusting his Spirit to pray through us.
Dr. Derwin L. Gray is the founding and lead pastor of Transformation Church, a multiethnic, multigenerational, mission-shaped community located in Indian Land, South Carolina. He’s also the bestselling author of Hero, Limitless Life, Crazy Grace for Crazy Times Bible Study, The High-Definition Leader, The Good Life, and God, Do You Hear Me? as well as the host of the Marinate on That Podcast. A former NFL star, Derwin has played for the Indianapolis Colts and the Carolina Panthers. Learn more about Derwin and his ministry at derwinlgray.com.
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