Mark Batterson
15 min read ⭑
“Prayer is the difference between the best you can do and the best God can do. It’s the difference between you fighting for God and God fighting for you. It’s the difference between letting things happen and making things happen. And I think prayer is the way you write history before it happens.”
The following is a transcript of a live interview. Responses have been edited and condensed for brevity and clarity.
QUESTION #1: ACQUAINT
There’s much more to food than palate and preference. How does your go-to meal at your favorite hometown restaurant reveal the true you behind the web bio?
My wife and I lived in Washington, D.C., for the past 25 years, but once you're a Midwest person, you’re always a Midwest person. That’s why—I hope I don't offend anybody from New York—it’s Chicago deep-dish pizza for me all the way. My favorite is Lou Malnati’s Pizzeria. We have their pizzas shipped on dry ice to where we live in D.C. with great frequency. As a Chicago kid, I was missing the city’s classic deep-dish pizza, so shipping it here to D.C. gives us a little bit of that hometown flavor.
Here’s a fun Malnati’s story. I have actually made a pizza in their kitchen, which would rank as one of the great joys and privileges of my life. And I have been known to fly through Chicago, have a long enough layover to go out of security, catch a cab to the nearest Malnati’s, eat it in the Uber on the way back to the airport, go through security again, and get back on a plane. So if you're willing to go in and out of security at Chicago O'Hare Airport, that’s evidence that you love Malnati’s pizza.
I'll add one more story to the mix. When our kids were young, my wife and I would order Malnati’s, but we would put in a thin-crust, store-bought pizza for them because we felt like they hadn't reached the age of accountability yet—they wouldn't fully be able to appreciate a deep-dish pizza. So long story short, if I share my Malnati’s with you, it is a true measure of love.
Adam Mason
QUESTION #2: REVEAL
We’ve all got quirky proclivities and out-of-the-way interests. So what are yours? What so-called "nonspiritual" activities do you love and help you find spiritual renewal?
Well, like everybody else, I’m a creature of habit. I'm not sure why, but I always set my alarm to an even number. And I bet there are some “even” people out there who can identify with that. I played basketball in college—University of Chicago, so I love to stay in shape. A couple of weeks ago, I did my first bike century. I biked 100 miles in Minneapolis with a group called Fathers for the Fatherless to raise money for some ministries that care for orphans.
I love anything that has to do with physical activity. I have hiked the Inca Trail to Machu Picchu. I’ve hiked the Grand Canyon rim to rim. I'm always looking for a good adventure. One of my mantras in life is Don't accumulate possessions. Accumulate experiences. I'm always looking for opportunities to go on some kind of adventure. Whenever I eat chocolate, some of it's probably going to end up on my front teeth, followed by a big smile because I think life is too short not to have a little bit of fun and have a few laughs along the way. I try to take God seriously but not take myself too seriously. And I think the happiest, healthiest, holiest people on the planet are those who laugh at themselves the most. That’s why I’ve been known to frequent comedy clubs.
To sum up, I love a good laugh and I love a good workout. Those would be a few of the interests that I have outside of my day-to-day job.
QUESTION #3: CONFESS
Every superhero has a weakness. Every human, too. We're just good at faking it. But who are we kidding? We’re broken and in this thing together. So what’s your kryptonite and how do you hide it?
For starters, I have seen two different counselors in the last two years as I try to work through some family of origin issues—all of us have them. And as I try to work through some of the stress, the reality is that between COVID-19, political polarization, racial tension, some of the things that we're experiencing in the culture, and the fact that I live in Washington, D.C., I've had to work really hard on de-stressing.
I am a Type 3 performer on the Enneagram, which means I'm pretty driven. You know, that's how I hold down two jobs simultaneously—a pastor by day and an author by early morning. I think the flip side of that is I push myself pretty hard.
Within that, I think there are probably a few things I struggle with. One is I'm not good at saying no. I tend to be a people-pleaser, which means I tend to avoid conflict. I've learned that iron sharpens iron, so if you want to grow, sometimes you need to have those hard conversations. That's the growth point for me. I've also learned the hard way that saying yes to one thing means saying no to something else. There was a stage in my life where I was saying yes to way too many opportunities. My wife would kid me that every opportunity is an unbelievable opportunity. But what I discovered is that success is when those who know you best respect you most. At the end of the day, I want to be famous in my home, and because of that, I've had to reprioritize. I think one of the greatest reality checks is when your wife says, “This isn't what I signed up for.” My wife said that to me because I was all over the map, trying to win the world but maybe not winning on the home front. That was a wake-up call, a reality check. And on that note, I’m grateful for a wife who is grateful but also willing to speak out when she sees something is off in our home. Since that conversation, I've had to establish some boundaries and priorities to help me keep the main thing as the main thing.
I’ve come to realize that my kryptonite is probably my drivenness. Learning disciplines like solitude, Sabbath, and even silence are pretty hard for me. I tend to run in one gear, and it's high gear. I've learned the hard way that you've got to make sure that you're unplugging enough to be there for the people in your life—to make sure they don't get the leftovers but rather the lion's share.
QUESTION #4: FIRE UP
Tell us about your toil. How are you investing your professional time right now? What’s your obsession? And why should it be ours?
Right now, there's a little mantra I keep saying to myself and to others: Show me your habits, and I'll show you your future. Destiny is not a mystery. Destiny is made up of daily habits. You have to learn to make and break the habits that are going to make or break you.
Do It for a Day: How to Make or Break Any Habit in 30 Days is my latest book project that comes out on November 2. It's a sequel to a book that came out last year, Win the Day: 7 Daily Habits to Help You Stress Less & Accomplish More. It's all about making and breaking habits. I believe habit formation is a spiritual formation. No matter the goal you're going after, you have to reverse engineer it into daily habits. Everything happens one day at a time. Right now, I'm kind of living in this space where, every once in a while, you've got to deconstruct and reconstruct your habits. You have to take an audit of your routines and rituals. If you want to reimagine your future, I think it starts with really reinventing some of those habits. And if you do those things day in and day out, I think they work like compound interest for your future. So that's what I'm living in right now.
In that vein of making and breaking habits, it’s important to realize that leadership starts with self-leadership. Because of the cultural moment we’re in, all of us feel a little beat up. For what it's worth, I saw a survey that only 18% of leaders feel qualified to lead right now. I wonder who those 18% are because all of us, I think, feel like we're a little past our pay grade. I also think it's interesting that nearly one-third of Americans, according to the CDC, would say that they're anxious or depressed, and leaders are not exempt. In fact, we might be more susceptible to those emotions. So right now, self-leadership is critical, and I think self-leadership starts with daily habits. So the goal in writing Do It for a Day: How to Make or Break Any Habit in 30 Days is just to help leaders lead themselves a little bit better and help those who have a goal they’re going after to break it down into manageable daily habits. A couple of years ago, I ran a marathon. I didn't just go out and run 26.2 miles—I would have quickly pulled a hamstring. I downloaded a training plan, did 72 training runs, 475 miles, and then—and only then—I was ready to run that marathon. And so I'll go right back to where I started: Show me your habits, and I'll show you your future. That's where half my heart is right now.
The other half is in a children's book that I have the joy and privilege of reading and writing with my daughter, Summer Batterson Dailey. That's pretty fun for me a dad because some of my best memories are reading bedtime storybooks to my kids. To be able to then write one with my daughter is pretty special. The book is called The Blessing of You, and the goal is to help children at a young age to identify the blessings that are all around them all the time—including the person you see in the mirror. It’s so important to praise God for the blessings we experience day in and day out. We have to get good at identifying those blessings, but also, at the end of the day, we have to flip the blessing. And the way we do that is by blessing others in the same way we've been blessed. I think children are at a perfect age to learn the art of blessing other people. So this book is filled with beautiful illustrations that I think are going to help children not only count their blessings, but also be a blessing to their friends and families.
QUESTION #5: BOOST
Cashiers, CEOs, contractors, or customer service reps, we all need grace flowing into us and back out into the world. How does the Holy Spirit invigorate your work? And how do you know it's God when it happens?
I think this is a moment when, as those who follow Christ and are filled with the Spirit of God, we've got to stand in the gap as peacemakers, grace-givers, and tone-setters. I think it's critical. Jesus’ longest discourse is called The Sermon on the Mount, and it's so counterintuitive and counter-cultural. The synopsis would be this: Love your enemies, pray for those who persecute you, bless those who curse you, turn the other cheek, go the extra mile, and give the shirt off your back. We need more people who are doing that, but that requires an extra measure of grace. That requires living this Spirit-filled, Spirit-led life.
There are a couple of questions that I've been asking lately of our church, in the books that I write, and in the circles that I travel in. The questions are: What percentage of your words, thoughts, and actions are a regurgitation of the news you're watching or the social media you're following? And what percentage of your words, thoughts, and actions are a revelation that you're getting from God's Word? This is the moment when the internal pressure of the Holy Spirit at work within you has to be greater than the external pressure of trending hashtags or popular opinion.
I have a theory of everything, and it's this: I think the answer to every prayer is more of the Holy Spirit. What I mean by that is yes, we need more love, we need more joy, and we need more peace. Love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, gentleness, faithfulness, and self-control—those are free in the Spirit. So what we need is more of the Spirit, who produces more of that fruit. I'm believing that we're going to see a supernatural demonstration of God's love and power in our generation. I think we need it more than ever. And that's what I'm praying for and believing for.
QUESTION #6: inspire
Scripture and tradition beckon us into the rich and varied actions that open our hearts to the presence of God. So spill it, which spiritual practice is workin' best for you right now?
In the craziness of the last couple of years, it's a daily Bible reading plan that has kept me locked and loaded. I love the Bible, and I think it's in a category by itself. You don't just read the Bible, it reads you. The goal of that daily Bible reading plan isn't just to get through the Bible but to get the Bible through us. I think it's critical right now that we are in God's Word. Studying God's Word is, to me, right at the core of spiritual discipline. In the Talmud, the Jewish rabbis said that an hour of study is as an hour of prayer. They didn't really differentiate between studying Scripture and prayer. In fact, I would argue the Bible wasn't meant simply to be read—it was meant to be prayed. You pray through it and meditate on it.
So that daily Bible reading plan is critical, but I would follow it up with the importance of prayer. Prayer is the difference between the best you can do and the best God can do. It’s the difference between you fighting for God and God fighting for you. It’s the difference between letting things happen and making things happen. And I think prayer is the way you write history before it happens. We have seen so many answers to prayer. Of course, this is coming from someone who's written a couple of books on prayer—the Circle Maker and Draw the Circle—but I am signed, sealed, and delivered when it comes to the power of prayer. I think God honors bold prayers because bold prayers honor God. I've experienced miracles, and so I know that with the combination of being in God's Word and praying bold prayers—and if you want to throw in prayer and fasting—it's game on.
QUESTION #7: FOCUS
Our email subscribers get free ebooks featuring our favorite resources—lots of things that have truly impacted our faith lives. But you know about some really great stuff too. What are three resources that have impacted you?
When I was 5 years old, my parents took us to see a movie called The Hiding Place. It was a Billy Graham film, and it was after watching that film that I asked my mom if I could ask Jesus into my heart. It was a turning point for me. Somehow, God used that medium of film to really impact my life. I've always been someone who loves film, and I think the screen is post-modern stained glass. (On that note, may God raise up a generation of filmmakers who can share the good news through moving pictures!)
Second, I've read a lot of books—thousands of books. I might pinpoint A.W. Tozer as someone who has had a profound impact on my life. I can rattle off a couple of things that Tozer said that literally change the trajectory of my life. One of them is “What comes into our minds when we think about God is the most important thing about us.” That's huge. He also said, “A low view of God is the cause of a hundred lesser evils. A high view of God is the solution to ten thousand temporal problems.” I love that, and I would say that Tozer is as relevant today as the day he wrote those books. That’s why I love going back to some of the spiritual classics written by spiritual giants. To me, A.W. Tozer would be at the top of that list.
Third, I am so grateful for a spiritual father named Dick Folk. I realize that not everybody can run out and contact Dick Folk, but I think all of us need a spiritual father or a spiritual mother, someone who believes in us more than we believe in ourselves. It takes humility in our younger years to honor those who have been there and done that, to really honor those whose shoulders we stand on. I recommend that people not just consume books, music, and films but also find a book with skin on it. Find someone who can ask you hard questions. Someone who refuses to give up on you, someone who is always going to give you that extra measure of grace. But they're also going to speak the truth in love. My hope and prayer is that people would be as fortunate as I was to find a spiritual father, cultivate that relationship, and then flip the blessing. And maybe, just maybe, you will have an opportunity to be a spiritual father or spiritual mother at some point to someone else.
We all have things we cling to to survive (or thrive) in tough times. Name one resource you’ve found indispensable in this current season—and tell us what it's done for you.
It's hard for me to narrow it down to one, but I would tip my cap to Carey Nieuwhof. Carey’s podcast is widely listened to, and I'm grateful for his influence. He's someone who has become a friend of mine over the years, and I feel like he's a steady voice as our culture’s tectonic plates shift. Years ago, Carey gave a talk to our staff at National Community Church. Afterward, I said, “Carey that's a book!” And sure enough, this year, he just released At Your Best: How to Get Time, Energy, and Priorities Working in Your Favor. That book reminded me of why I told him it needs to be a book. It's so hard right now to manage time. But the truth is, time is the great equalizer. We all have different levels of talent, different levels of treasure, but we all get the same number of hours in a day and the same number of days in a week. I just read that book, and even as I try to manage my own time—which is the huge stewardship issue—I'm grateful for someone like Carey Nieuwhof and his book At Your Best. I think it's one of those books that will help people recalibrate and do a better job at managing their time.
QUESTION #8: dream
God is continually stirring new things in each of us. So give us the scoop! What’s beginning to stir in you but not yet fully awakened? What can we expect from you in the future?
I live by the adage Go big or go home. Show me the size of your dream, and I'll show you the size of your God. And so right now, I'm believing God for three things. I’m believing God for revival in the church, reformation across the kingdom, and renaissance in culture. I think it starts with personal revival, an intense hunger for God, for his presence, for his Word. I'm believing God for miracles, signs, and wonders, for a supernatural demonstration of his love and power. But while I'm believing for revival, it doesn't end there. I think there are ways of doing church no one has thought of yet. And as the church, we need to continue to reimagine and incarnate the Good News of the gospel with the help of the Holy Spirit. I think it was C.S. Lewis who said that our failure as a church is the failure of imagination. May God anoint our right brains again to dream those kingdom dreams that are going to advance this kingdom.
Finally, I’m believing for renaissance, and I don’t mean simply creating a Christian subculture. I think a church that stays behind its four walls isn’t a church at all. I'm so inspired by the apostle Paul in Athens. He walked into the Areopagus and competed for the truth. I believe we need to write better books, produce better films, draft better legislation, start better businesses, make better music. How? With the help of the Holy Spirit. I think God is raising up a generation to go after revival, reformation, and renaissance. That's what I'm dreaming about these days and believing that somehow, in some way, we will be a little piece of that puzzle here in the corner of God's kingdom called Washington, D.C.
You can find dozens of bestselling secular books on how to make and break habits. Each of those books may have valid and helpful tips, but they all neglect the greatest power we have as Christians to accomplish anything—the Holy Spirit.
That’s why we love how Mark doesn’t just focus on the physical things you can do to set up lifelong habits that help you reach your goals. He also focuses on the spiritual side, the part that gives true meaning to those goals.
We must ask ourselves, “Am I trying to achieve my goals on my own, with my own self-made habits? Or am I truly allowing the Holy Spirit to empower me, even in the smallest changes I make to my day?”
These questions can transform our lives if we let them. The final question is—will we?
Mark Batterson serves as lead pastor of National Community Church (NCC) in Washington, D.C. NCC also owns and operates Ebenezers Coffeehouse, The Miracle Theatre, and the DC Dream Center. Mark holds a Doctor of Ministry degree from Regent University and is the New York Times bestselling author of 19 books, including, The Circle Maker, In a Pit with a Lion on a Snowy Day, Wild Goose Chase, Double Blessing, Win the Day, and his latest release, Do It for a Day. Mark is married to Lora, and they live on Capitol Hill with their three children: Parker, Summer, and Josiah.
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