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QUESTION #1: ACQUAINT

There’s much more to food than palate and preference. How does a go-to meal at your favorite hometown restaurant reveal the true you behind the web bio?

These days, I’m enjoying California burritos (think carne asada, french fries, cheese, sour cream and pico de gallo all in one delicious bite) in the SoCal sun. But in my heart of hearts, it’s all about the garbage plate for me because it represents a time of healing in my life.

First, though, let me explain what a garbage plate actually is! Native to Rochester, New York, the garbage plate is a glorious concoction of generous scoops of home fries and mac salad plus your choice of a couple of meats — usually hamburger or cheeseburger patties or red or white hots. (Some do grilled cheese, but why would you choose that?) Your plate is then smothered in a meat sauce and then topped with a drizzling of ketchup and mustard.

Although I lived in Rochester for most of my growing-up years, it wasn’t until after I moved away that I grew to really enjoy the garbage plate. In a weird way, the garbage plate represents me moving away from the identity my Taiwanese immigrant parents put on me and coming into my own.

It also represents the freedom and healing I’ve found in Christ from the eating disorders that kept me in slavery for years. Part of that healing involved God bringing me into shared community. My friends and I would dig into these garbage plates together late into the night over deep conversations about faith and life — plus cringey gushings over our crushes, of course!

QUESTION #2: REVEAL

We’ve all got quirky proclivities and out-of-the-way interests. So what are yours? What so-called “nonspiritual” activities do you love and help you find spiritual renewal?

Although I’m not short on quirky proclivities, something my husband and I like to do is use our annual passes at Disneyland — especially with our children. RJ and I have been married for nearly 14 years and have had our fair share of solo adventures.

After a long, painful season of infertility, God blessed us with our two children, Regi (3 years) and Clementine (8 months). There’s something about experiencing the wonder of Disney all over again through my toddler’s eyes — the magic when Black Panther gives him a high five, when Captain America or Ant-Man waves back at him or when he gleefully skips through his favorite movie brought to life in Cars Land.

Truth be told, watching my children enjoy life does something in my soul. In fact, nothing has connected me more with the childlikeness God calls his people to and the simple joys in life than watching my kids experience and engage in their world, even if we’re just throwing sticks and rocks in the creek.

QUESTION #3: CONFESS

Every superhero has a weakness. Every human, too. We’re just good at faking it. But who are we kidding? We’re broken and in this thing together. So what’s your kryptonite and how do you hide it?

My core wound is feeling that I’m not wanted. And whew, detonation-level reactions happen when that core wound is brushed up against — be it inadvertently by my husband in seasons when his work picks up and I feel second in his life, or when I feel my voice at the leadership table or my work contribution with The Navigators is diminished.

In one condensed season in my mid-30s, this lie was poked again and again, which caused roots of bitterness to grow deep and my heart to seriously harden toward God. What it looked like was throwing myself fully into being flawless in my secular work, turning away from Christian ministry, making sure my image was immaculate and getting into an entanglement with a co-worker.

All this led to what I now call The Great Unraveling, a season when God let me be my own devastation so that everything I had built myself up to be — all my expectations of what success looked like — could be utterly shattered before him. Only then could he rebuild me as the Alice he intended me to be in Christ.

These days, I know when I feel threatened. And in the words of Brené Brown, I can either puff up to make myself really big and aggressive and larger than life, or I can shrink back and make myself invisible. I’m learning in those vulnerable spaces to simply stand my sacred ground.

QUESTION #4: FIRE UP

Tell us about your toil. How are you investing your professional time right now? What’s your obsession? And why should it be ours?

I’ve recently written a book called “How to Save the World: Disciplemaking Made Simple.” It’s not the breakout book I ever expected to write. I don’t consider myself the expert on disciple-making. But I’m truly passionate about it, and I truly believe anyone can do it. I’m passionate enough about it to risk forsaking my immigrant parents’ wishes to “get a real job” and instead asking people for money so I can go full time into disciple-making ministry.

I have been a hot mess at different intervals in my life, a few of which you’ve read about already. What changed the course of my life was someone showing me how to have a relationship with Jesus — how to read the Bible, pray to him and then help someone else do the same. That’s all disciple-making is!

In college, God healed me from anorexia, binge-eating, bulimia, depression and anxiety, and he helped me see my value apart from men. All that happened because someone helped me know Jesus.

And the craziest thing? God was able to use me, a hot mess of a girl, to help others walk with Jesus … while I was still in process! After all, I didn’t grow up in the church. I had no theological training. And yet he used me.

Truly, if God could use college Alice to help others know him, he can use anyone. That’s why I’ve written this book — because I know disciple-making sounds way more daunting than it is. I’m convinced that if people knew how simple it could be, more followers of Jesus would live out his call to make disciples of all nations. It could transform lives, which could then heal families, which could restore communities … which could save the world.

QUESTION #5: BOOST

Cashiers, CEOs, contractors or customer service reps, we all need grace flowing into us and back out into the world. How does the Holy Spirit invigorate your work? And how do you know it’s God when it happens?

When I write, speak and lead, I find that the more I try to control every word that comes out of my mouth or fingers, the less powerful it is. It’s at those moments when I’m up on stage and feel this terrifying, nervous energy (it almost feels like I need to pee) that I release control over perfection and allow space for the Holy Spirit to breathe life and words through me. That’s when a message hits most powerfully.

I used to think I needed to write or present perfectly and have everything perfectly prepared. I hated that nervous energy. But I've grown more and more comfortable with leaning into the vulnerability of not having everything under my control. Instead, I can recognize that maybe God wants to communicate something through me and I just need to let go of my words and get out of the way.

I find that God also uses imagery to encourage me in places of deep pain — whether it involves nature or something that comes to my mind. It’s happened enough times that I’ve begun to realize that what God meant for my encouragement is also meant to encourage others.

Side note: If you haven’t watched “The Big Red Tractor” by Francis Chan, please do so! It changed my view of the Holy Spirit’s work through me!

QUESTION #6: inspire

Scripture and tradition beckon us into the rich and varied actions that open our hearts to the presence of God. So spill it, which spiritual practice is workin’ best for you right now?

I am a huge fan of Lectio Divina! It’s an ancient Christian contemplative practice that means “sacred reading” and is a means of union with God by prayerfully reading through Scripture.

Often, I find that my mind is like a shaken-up snow globe with “snow flurries” swirling all around: my to-do lists, my anxieties, and all the balls I’m juggling. Those flurries can block me from seeing what’s underneath — my pain, my shame, places where God wants to speak encouragement and affirmation deep in my soul.

What I love about Lectio Divina is that it offers the opportunity to ask Jesus to bring the “snow flurries” to rest before engaging with Scripture. The Spirit of God can then lift the words of encouragement off the page to interact with other parts of Scripture, my memories, wherever he wants to speak into my life. This gives God the opportunity to speak what he wants to in my life as opposed to me choosing what I think he wants to say to me. It allows the Word to put down deep roots into my soul.

QUESTION #7: FOCUS

Our email subscribers get free ebooks featuring our favorite resources — lots of things that have truly impacted our faith lives. But you know about some really great stuff, too. What are three resources that have impacted you?

During The Great Unraveling, “The Gifts of Imperfection” by Brené Brown was a game changer for me. It impacted how I show up in my everyday life, how shame holds me back, and how the path forward to a truly fulfilling life is vulnerability. Although it’s not a Christian book, she reinforces so many biblical principles with her research.

Another book I love is “Present Over Perfect,” by Shauna Niequist. This book demonstrated for me, as a recovering perfectionist, what it looks like to simply show up instead of waiting to be perfect before doing so.

For example, while I was on maternity leave, I Zoomed into a leader development gathering for the leader development program I lead within The Navigators. I debated for a bit whether or not to do so because I didn’t want to put on makeup, which in the past would have caused me to be a no-show.

I decided that to be present and make-up free was of greater value than not showing up at all. I’m so glad I made that choice because I got to hear how participants were blessed by my team’s leading of the gathering!

Finally, a book that has revolutionized my view of Christian leadership is “In The Name of Jesus” by Henri Nouwen. I have trouble viewing myself as a leader. I wonder if I have the skills and competencies that make for great leaders.

What I love about Henri Nouwen’s book is the simplicity of what he considers good leadership: Do I hear from God? Am I willing to obey him and stand firm in what I believe he has called me to, even when everyone else is doing something else?

Hey, if those are marks of good Christian leadership, I can do that!

We all have things we cling to to survive (or thrive) in tough times. Name one resource you’ve found indispensable in this current season — and tell us what it’s done for you.

I’ve been reading “How Women Rise” by Marshall Goldsmith and Sally Helgesen. Again, this is a non-Christian resource, but it has really helped me grow my organizational leadership with the premise that the very habits and traits that got me to the level of success that I have now will be what impedes my continuing success as a leader.

I used to think that I needed to lead like “one of the guys.” Now I’m realizing that not only did God not create me to be a man, but he also didn’t create me to lead like a man. He created me to lead both men and women as a woman of God. Instead of toughening and hardening up, I know he has been calling me to remain feminine while also empowering myself as a leader for the greater good of the body of Christ.

QUESTION #8: dream

God is continually stirring new things in each of us. So give us the scoop! What’s beginning to stir in you but not yet fully awakened? What can we expect from you in the future?

I am really wrestling with what to do with my voice in this season of life. I’ve had a weird relationship with my voice. My friend once jokingly said that my trajectory with my voice is like Elsa from “Frozen” with her powers. My voice carries a certain power, and yet early on, it also had this uncontrolled rawness that inadvertently hurt some people while empowering others at the same time.

The fallout from hurting others impacted my husband and my work and scared my voice back into hiding, where I honestly thought it was supposed to remain. In recent years since The Great Unraveling, though, God has given me increasingly greater platforms to speak, both on stage and with writing, which I had all but given up on.

For example, my publisher approached me to write my latest book. Opportunities are arising after The Great Unraveling that I could only dream of before. And I’m not quite sure what to do with it. I think I’m still afraid of showing up with my voice because I’m afraid of hurting others or getting in trouble.

God has encouraged me deeply with The Message translation of Isaiah 54:4 — “Don’t be afraid — you’re not going to be embarrassed. Don’t hold back — you’re not going to come up short. You’ll forget all about the humiliations of your youth, and the indignities of being a widow will fade from memory.”

This is my go-to passage when I need God’s gentle reminder and hype to just show up. I hope it can be an encouragement to you as well.

Have you ever hurt someone while trying to obey God? Most of us have. And the truth is, none of us will reach true perfection on this side of heaven. Even in trying to love others like Jesus and reach people with his truth, we will make mistakes, and unfortunately, that means that people will get hurt sometimes.

This doesn’t give us an excuse to not care when we hurt others. Not at all! Instead, this should be a sobering reminder for us to stay soft, stay humble, and keep asking God to refine our hearts and our voice. Not because we’re trying to achieve perfection — but because we’re simply seeking to walk by faith.

May our pursuit of Jesus and his heart always reflect Paul’s attitude:

“Not that I have already obtained this or am already perfect, but I press on to make it my own, because Christ Jesus has made me his own” (Philippians 3:12, ESV).

Alice Matagora has worked with The Navigators for nearly 20 years and is currently leading the Leader Development Initiative in the organization. She is also a licensed marriage and family therapist as well as the author of How to Save the World: Disciplemaking Made Simple, which will be released in August 2022. Alice currently lives in Orange County, California, with RJ, her husband of 14 years; their two children, Regi and Clementine; and their dog, Daisy. In her free time, she enjoys sleeping, eating delicious food, being in nature, nerdery and silly dancing in the kitchen with her family.

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