10 min read ⭑

Norman Hubbard, an author and speaker, has spent the past 25 years on staff with The Navigators collegiate ministries and currently works in leadership and resource development. He is the author of four books from NavPress, and the latest book, released in January 2024, is called “More Than Christians.” He speaks at conferences nationally, and he’s currently completing his Master of Divinity degree at Denver Seminary.

In this interview, Norman shares how tending to plants reveals things about his own soul and the true Gardener of hearts. He opens up about a “gravitational pull toward isolation,” even after finishing a book on the formation of Christian community. He also describes how translating the Gospel of Mark into English has become an important spiritual practice. Keep reading to hear him describe this and other practices that help him daily walk out his spirituality — including his attempt to “smuggle the discipline of Scripture memory” into his prayer life.

QUESTION #1: ACQUAINT

There’s much more to food than palate and preference. How does a go-to meal at your favorite hometown restaurant reveal the true you behind the web bio?

I live in Minnesota, the land of 10,000 hot dishes (aka: casseroles), but I grew up in the Deep South (coastal and upstate South Carolina and east central Alabama). This means that I boil my own peanuts during blizzards, and I prepare my own grits with attention that makes me look like an orthodox priest brooding over the sacrament. When I go back home — I consider Anderson, SC, my “hometown” — I go to Skins’ Hot Dogs. The original one. Across the tracks. Two miles away from the middle school building that got condemned just after I moved away. Go to Skins’. Get the apostrophe in the right place.

Skins’ sounds like a place you wouldn’t want your teenage son to visit. It would not help for me to tell you that the original owner’s name was “Skin Thrasher.” As it turns out, Skins’ is a fine, old, upstanding hot dog stand that serves one entree only: the best hot dog you’ll encounter down South. You can do what you’d like, but I order two with ketchup, mustard and homemade chili. And Original Lay’s Potato Chips and a Diet Pepsi. I used to order a Moon Pie for dessert, but they no longer serve RC Cola at Skins’. (Canon law doesn’t permit Moon Pies to be consumed with any other cola.)

QUESTION #2: REVEAL

We’ve all got quirky proclivities and out-of-the-way interests. So, what are yours? What so-called “nonspiritual” activities do you love and help you find spiritual renewal?

It’s 14 degrees Fahrenheit just outside my office-cum-sunroom porch. Six inches of fresh snow covers every rooftop and hedge that I see from the 11 windows that surround me. Right next to me, though, is an asparagus fern, a golden pothos, and a “Chinese money tree.” Across the room, there’s a croton, a cordyline and a “tater tot” arbor vitae I didn’t have time to plant before the ground froze. I’m not sure what has happened to me through the years. I might have become my mother.

My mom can make anything grow. She snips stems off plants in her neighbors’ garbage cans and roots the cuttings. She’s a certified Master Gardener, but she doesn’t like to talk about that. She just cares for plants and wants them to grow. I got her genes, I suppose, though I’m not as gifted as she is.

The plants that surround me only need a few things to keep growing through the harsh Minnesota winter. They need the sunlight my 11 windows let in. They need me to water them with ice cubes once a week. Most importantly, they need me to leave the space heater on at night so they don’t freeze to death on the porch. 

My plants tell me something about my own soul and the Gardener-God who tends it. They also remind me that God has entrusted the work of caring for plants (and souls) to people like me. The work requires a bit of understanding and attentiveness, but it’s not rocket science. Just ask my mom the next time you see her snipping a leaf from a neighbor’s brush pile.

QUESTION #3: CONFESS

Every superhero has a weakness. Every human, too. We're just good at faking it. But who are we kidding? We’re broken and in this thing together. So what’s your kryptonite and how do you hide it?

Though I just finished writing a book about the formation of Christian community, I live with a gravitational pull toward isolation. It wasn’t always this way. I used to be known as a raging extrovert with a penchant for adventure. I never minded being alone, but I seldom found myself without company. Then my first wife, Katie, was diagnosed with breast cancer. She lived through three diagnoses and multiple rounds of treatment over seven years. During that time, I found it increasingly difficult to be around people. When she died, almost every interaction exhausted me.

I think I still love people. I don’t think my heart has gotten small or hard in the years since Katie died, but I have less energy and fewer words now. Left to myself, I would drift toward isolation. I work at home, pray and think a lot. The time I spend alone isn’t unspiritual. It’s just anti-social, which is generally unspiritual. That’s something I have to watch against.

QUESTION #4: FIRE UP

Tell us about your toil. How are you investing your professional time right now? What’s your obsession? And why should it be ours?

Words have always fascinated me. I’m less interested in the mechanics of grammar than in the pragmatics of language use. How do we do things with words to shape human communities? Many people assume that we just say things with words. That’s only part of the story. We also build (or destroy) things with words. They have shaping power. The most striking example I can give is the power invested in this utterance: “I now pronounce you man and wife.” Under the right set of circumstances, these words alter reality. 

In the early church, believers used familiar terms of direct address and self-description in unusual and powerful ways to shape community. For instance, you might find Jews and Gentiles in very small assemblies in a given city referring to each other as “brothers and sisters.” This was simply not done in the ancient world. What’s more, they seemed to have never called one another “Christians.” This was a term that outsiders used — probably derisively — to refer to Christians. 

So before we called each other “Christians,” what did we call each other? What do these terms tell us about the gospel and the God who saved us? And how does our language of direct address and self-description shape the kind of community we are forming?

QUESTION #5: BOOST

Cashiers, CEOs, contractors or customer service reps, we all need grace flowing into us and back out into the world. How does the Holy Spirit invigorate your work? And how do you know it's God when it happens?

I do not believe in myself as a writer. There is no other way to say this. Though I’ve been writing my whole adult life and have published a few projects, I have no confidence that what I want to say will come out right or be worth reading. My experience of grace has largely come through the presence of people who encourage and challenge me to take the next step.

In the process of writing my latest book, “More Than Christians,” I fell into a proverbial canyon. It wasn’t writer’s block, but a months-long morass of self-condemnation and inactivity. It lasted so long, there was no possible way I could have finished the book before my deadline. I reached out to a friend of mine — David McGlynn — for help. David is a believer who writes and teaches writing for a living. He held my hand, kicked my butt and insisted that I follow a disciplined process that helped me get back on track. Without David, “More Than Christians” would have never been written. 

Basically, I experienced the main theme of the book through my interaction with David: God saved me through the cross of Christ and brought me into a relationship with another believer who supported me so that I could move forward.

QUESTION #6: inspire

Scripture and tradition beckon us into the rich and varied actions that open our hearts to the presence of God. So spill it, which spiritual practice is workin' best for you right now?

Three practices are shaping my spiritual life right now. On the daily, I pray for people and circumstances through the lens of Scripture. I have 12 cards a day that I pray through with various topics: “Focusing on God,” “Confession,” “My kids,” “Speaking & Writing.” On each card, I have a passage of Scripture written out that helps me focus attention on what and how to pray. I am not a naturally prayerful person, so this approach helps me proceed with consistency. It also means that I am rehearsing over 70 Bible verses and passages each week. (Basically, I smuggle the discipline of Scripture memory into my prayer life.)

I also take one morning a week to write out the things I believe about God, God's purposes in creation, who I am, and where this is all headed. I call these my “Morning Affirmations.” A person could be forgiven for thinking my affirmations look a lot like the Apostles’ Creed after being mugged in a back alley.

Finally, I am translating the Gospel of Mark from the Codex Vaticanus. This is (without question) the nerdiest thing I have ever done in my quiet times. I picked up a facsimile of Vaticanus and cut the spine off the book. I lay a page from the Gospel of Mark in front of me, and I struggle to read it. (There is no punctuation in the original, and there are no spaces between the words.) Then, I write out the text in familiar Greek script, with punctuation and word and sentence spacing. As a final step, I translate the Greek into English on the facing page. This helps me slow down over the text and pay attention to the way Mark expressed himself. I hope my Greek professor never sees this journal.

QUESTION #7: FOCUS

Our email subscribers get free ebooks featuring our favorite resources — lots of things that have truly impacted our faith lives. But you know about some really great stuff, too. What are some resources that have impacted you?

Hands down, Dallas Willard has been one of the most influential writers and speakers in my life. At some of the lowest points in my life, his recorded lectures or interviews have helped recall me to the gospel. His books have shaped my thinking in ways I probably can’t account for. “The Spirit of the Disciplines” captured me early on. “Renovation of the Heart” is one of my most treasured books. I have probably listened to Dallas’ final public conference (done with John Ortberg) three or four times. He is one of the few people I’ve known whose depth of thought and charity of heart reveal themselves in how he speaks.

I could go on recommending books. (I read G. K. Chesterton to stay sane. I read Jerry Bridges because he helped me understand the relationship of grace and discipline. I read Dickens when the winter solstice approaches.) If I do this, though, you will think that all I do is read. (And you will be correct.) Sadly, I don’t listen to much music, and the world of podcasts is largely foreign territory to me.

We all have things we cling to to survive (or thrive) in tough times. Name one resource you’ve found indispensable in this current season — and tell us what it's done for you.

As a prototypical Gen X-er, I have avoided following news outlets and newsmakers like the plague. My reflex toward cynicism kicks in when I listen to politicians or public figures, so I stay out of the news cycle. Recently, however, I’ve found that some writers at “The Dispatch” have earned my admiration and trust. This is no small feat, especially given the times we live in.

I subscribed to “The Dispatch” because David French was there. Then, he promptly left to begin writing for The New York Times. I've found other helpful voices at “The Dispatch” though — Jonah Goldberg’s not least among them. Kevin Williamson is probably my current favorite writer and analyst. He loves words and doesn’t mince them. I think he is a Christian, and I have appreciated some of his reflections on faith.

The other writer who has been a channel of grace to me lately is Karen Stiller. I met her at a writer’s retreat a while back, and I think the world of her now. She is walking with humble grace through the valley of the shadow of death, and she is a marvelous writer. Her latest book, “Holiness Here,” is a must-read. If you need a companion through the complexity of life, someone who can make you laugh and cry without trying to manipulate you, invite Karen into your life.

QUESTION #8: dream

God is continually stirring new things in each of us. So give us the scoop! What’s beginning to stir in you but not yet fully awakened? What can we expect from you in the future?

I have five or six legal pads stacked beside my desk. They represent some of the writing projects that might take flight in the next year or two (or ten). I can’t say. I focus most of my efforts on preaching and conference speaking, and I think this is my main contribution to the church. I also have a specific role within my organization (The Navigators) to help young staff and students study the Bible with thoughtfulness and thoroughness. This is good work, and I want to do it diligently.

Many people have an ambition to keep writing. I don’t really have that. I feel like my last book, “More Than Christians,” adds to our understanding of the gospel, especially as it transformed communities in the first century. At this point, I don’t know whether I have more to add. There is a lot more that interests me, of course, but I’m never sure the things that interest me are a benefit to others. 

In the meantime, my wife, Kristy, and I are hatching plans for a few new adventures. (Kristy lost her first husband, Dan, to cancer. We met and married in 2019.) There are a lot of trails we’d like to backpack, and we’re thinking about taking a boat trip around the eastern third of the United States. Somewhere in there — between the teaching and traveling — I’ll probably find an idea that won't let go of me. If so, I’ll try to write it out.

Norman Hubbard reveals the difficulty he encountered while tackling the writing process of his latest book. He describes the self-condemnation he felt as he faced his inability to write in the midst of a looming deadline. But when he reached out to a friend, he experienced the tangible reality of the message of his book.  He says, “God saved me through the cross of Christ and brought me into a relationship with another believer who supported me so that I could move forward.” Are there places in your life where you feel stuck? God has placed people in your life to help you through difficulties. Are there people in your life who need friendship, wisdom, or a push to do a hard thing? God designed you to support and to be supported by other believers. Ask him to highlight people in your life you can reach out to today.

Norman Hubbard has served on staff with The Navigators collegiate ministries for the past twenty-five years on seven campuses in the Midwest. He currently works in leadership and resource development, and he speaks at conferences nationally. Norman has a master’s degree in applied linguistics from Auburn University, and he’s currently completing his master’s of divinity at Denver Seminary. He is the author of four books from NavPress. The latest, released in January 2024, is called More Than Christians. Norman and his wife, Kristy, live in St. Paul, MN.

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