Bill Mowry’s excitement for disciplemaking started over 50 years ago. While in college, a friend named Ed introduced him to Jesus — and then invited him to study the Scriptures with him every week. Those hours helped shape Bill into the disciplemaker he is today, working with the Navigators Church Ministries team to help churches build cultures of discipleship. He’s also the author of “The Ways of the Alongsider,” “Walk with Me,” “The Ways of the Leader” and his latest, “Holding the Word.” When he’s not mentoring others, advising church leaders or writing, you can find him gardening with his wife, Peggy, at their home, which they affectionately call “Above and Beyond Acres,” in Columbus, Ohio.

We’re digging deeper into the topic of discipleship in today’s interview with Bill — as well as his delight in rock-and-roll and lifelong learning and his concerns about today’s cultural obsession with technology.

QUESTION #1: ACQUAINT

The meals we enjoy are about so much more than the food we eat. So how does a “go-to” meal at your favorite hometown restaurant reveal the true you behind your web bio?

I live in Columbus, Ohio — home of football (The Ohio State University) and food. Columbus is becoming a destination point for new and inviting restaurants and breweries. However, I’m not a person who plunges off the deep end for new food. I cautiously approach restaurants, and once I find one, I become a loyal customer. That’s why I enjoy a local Lebanese restaurant.

My oldest son is the food explorer in the family, and he introduced my wife, Peggy, and me to Lebanese. I’ve become a fan of baba ghanoush. The smokey taste of this variation of hummus flavored with the house hot sauce and scooped up with locally made pita bread keeps me coming back for more.

Not only is the food enticing, but our family’s commitment to eat together every Tuesday night at this restaurant is a weekly highlight. My oldest son is a professional illustrator, so Tuesdays at this restaurant give Peggy and me a chance to catch up with his busy schedule. Our 90-minute conversation ranges from art to politics to family to God. Our latest discussion is the impact of AI on the art world.

There’s something about eating outside the home that creates a safe place to catch up, discuss and debate. Life would not be the same without Tuesdays at our favorite Lebanese restaurant.

QUESTION #2: REVEAL

We’ve all got quirky proclivities and out-of-the-way interests. So what are yours? What so-called “nonspiritual” activity do you love engaging in that also helps you find essential spiritual renewal?

I’m an amateur rock-and-roll historian and an avid vinyl record collector. I’ve learned that God, through his common grace, can show up in the rock-and-roll world.

It all started one Sunday night when this teenager saw the Beatles on “The Ed Sullivan Show.” This was the start of the “British invasion” of the 1960s. Like an Eastern Orthodox icon, British artists like the Beatles, the Rolling Stones, Cream and a host of others were windows that opened up a world that existed behind the songs they covered.

These groups covered and interpreted African American blues and R&B musicians, taking them to a wider white audience. I was curious about the musicians that stood behind the covers of these British acts, and this curiosity led to the discovery of Howling Wolf, Muddy Waters, the Stax Sound and BB King, among others.

A parallel discovery unearthed the music of Bob Dylan. Dylan led me to American roots music — to the Carter Family, Woody Guthrie, Pete Seegar and the folk music that poured out from Appalachia and the Mississippi Delta.

Music challenges me to grow in my understanding and appreciation of the people who are often on the margins — the blues artists, the folk singers, the African-American spirituals. Music invites me to an appreciation of the artist’s recording and performing skills. That’s why I have a high-end stereo system that only plays the luxurious sound of vinyl!

God is in rock-and-roll through the presence of common grace; common grace gives me an appreciation of the giftedness of these artists, even when I might disagree with their lifestyles or lyrics. I revel in listening to the artistry of John Coltrane, Joni Mitchell, Billy Strings, Rhiannon Giddens or Mike Bloomfield as they share their performing skills with me. Their ability to perform at extraordinary levels points me to a generous God who gifts his creation. That’s why I play my music loud!

QUESTION #3: CONFESS

Every superhero has a weakness; every human too. We’re just good at faking it. But who are we kidding? We’re all broken and in this thing together. So what’s your kryptonite, and how do you confront its power head-on?

It’s easy as an author to fake a life, to pretend to apply or exaggerate the practice of the things I write about. While I take pains to be true to myself, the Lord faithfully unearths a character issue from each book I write. Take my recent book, “The Ways of the Leader.”

One “way” of the leader is the way of a lifelong learner. God exposed a deep-rooted attitude as I reflected on this practice in my life. Here’s the backstory.

In my first staff assignment with the Navigators as a campus missionary, my supervisor would visit me two to three times a year. Since I was a fledgling staff member, John wanted to help me be successful. When I mentally reviewed this experience in writing my book (40 years later!), I realized how John always asked me questions. In fact, he asked more than he told. And then I thought about our relationship — I can’t remember ever asking him a question!

As a young staff member, I felt that I knew it all. I appreciated John’s support and friendship, but I didn’t need his advice. Do you detect a character issue here?

I was arrogant! A deep pattern of self-sufficiency was exposed, a pattern that I saw continuing for years after my initial staff assignment. I hadn’t expected my arrogance to be exposed through the writing of a book. Since that discovery, I’ve probably sought out the advice of others more than I did in the previous decades combined. The Lord used a writing experience to reveal a deep-seated character issue that I still battle today.

QUESTION #4: FIRE UP

Tell us about your toil. How are you investing your professional time right now? What’s your current obsession? And why should it be ours?

I have a lot of little obsessions — making it to the airport on time, balancing my checkbook, mowing the yard — but my big obsession these days is helping people steward life wisdom, what I call “biographical wisdom.”

When you reach your 70s, age is more than an identity or handicap but a calling. In previous cultures and times, the elderly were the keepers of the story, the ones who passed on the values to the next generation, mentors who bridged the past to the present. They did this by their wisdom — discernment, insight, understanding — gleaned from time, experience and reflection. Without this wisdom, future generations will have no roots or soul. This wisdom is accumulated by lifelong learning.

Lifelong learning became my life’s passion when I entered graduate school in my early 40s to study adult education. The Holy Spirit helped me link the mechanics of lifelong learning to my passion to learn as Jesus’ disciple. It gave me the perspective and tools to participate in God’s classroom of life.

I love helping people capture wisdom from life, their biographical wisdom. When we encourage biographical wisdom, we give value and worth to a person’s experience. When properly reflected upon, our experience gives us expertise about life and ministry. Imagine the local church — there are “experts” in a congregation about marriage and divorce, career excellence, home maintenance, small group leadership and more. This expertise, this wisdom, too often lays dormant and unexplored. We’re missing out on so much! My passion is to unlock this wisdom and steward it for the benefit of others. This brings glory to God and affirms the person — what a great combination!

QUESTION #5: BOOST

Cashiers, CEOs, contractors or customer service reps, we all need grace flowing into us and back out into the world. How does the Holy Spirit invigorate your work? And how do you know it’s God when it happens?

I’m a “dutiful” person. I find myself identifying with the older brother in the story of the prodigal son. Life is faithfully doing God’s work. Then Dr. Bill entered my life.

My mentor and friend Dr. Bill Malarkey is my “joy” doctor. Besides being an M.D., Bill is a medical researcher at a major research university. He has spent his life exploring the relationship between stress and aging. One of his side research routes has been the element of joy. As a Christian, Bill knows the role of joy in the Christian life. After all, Jesus wanted his disciples to know his joy to the fullest. Bill has challenged me to be a person of joy — to find joy in duty and not just the accomplishment of a task.

I’m now pursuing the activities that bring joy — the ones where I sense the Holy Spirit is particularly present. As a ministry professional, I’m discovering the joy of service by asking these questions: “When do I get lost in the moment and lose track of time?” “When do I sense that there’s a responsiveness in the participants that can only be attributed to the Holy Spirit?” “What are the emotional highlights, the ones that keep me motivated, the ones that bring joy through the Spirit?”

I’m choosing to invest in these joy services not only for the feeling they provide but because I believe they represent the call of God for my life. What are these joy-givers for me? They are writing, coaching and teaching. I believe God is glorified when I revel in these acts of service. I’m discovering that duty is enhanced by this spirit of joy. I’m glad I met Dr. Bill.

I almost forgot. There’s one last sense of God’s presence, and that is gardening with my wife. Peggy is enamored with the mystery and the joy of growth. Almost daily, she brings to my attention the joy of seeing new colors, the joy of growth or the joy of fresh scents. Seeing her revel in the joy of gardening enhances the joy of my life.

QUESTION #6: inspire

Scripture and tradition beckon us into the rich and varied habits that open our hearts to the presence of God. So let us in. Which spiritual practice is working best for you in this season?

This introvert’s answer may surprise you. I’m not sure it’s an official spiritual “tradition,” but it’s a practice that’s life-giving for me. It takes place in coffee shops, on telephones or during Zoom chats. Here’s an example.

I talked with Randy the other night. After catching up on some health and family issues, we soon plunged into what we’re learning. I’m always amazed at how Randy turns the routine events of life into learning experiences. I told him that so many of the ideas I write about come from our conversations together. His out-of-the-box insights, questions and activities bring a freshness to my life. Who else do I know who’s traveling to Nebraska to see the herons land from a migratory journey?

My spiritual tradition is talking with and learning from friends who are exploring and living a life with God. As an introvert, I’m drawn to explore life in the privacy of my study and in my journal. I’m choosing to break out of these habitual patterns and enjoy learning from close friends through conversations.

Do you know one simple practice that enhances these times? I discovered it through another conversation with a friend. Jim commented how he teaches his children that “the most important question is the second one.” When we ask the second question, it communicates that we’ve listened to and are curious about the other person.

What a great lesson Jim captured for me! I’m working on asking the second question to enhance my spiritual tradition of friendships and conversations. Of course, after a rich conversation, I retreat and record the insights in my journal — the act of a good introvert.

QUESTION #7: FOCUS

Looking backward, considering the full sweep of your unique faith journey and all you encountered along the way, what top three resources stand out to you? What changed reality and your heart?

If you’re familiar with the organization I serve with, The Navigators, you know that we specialize in practical resources, which you can find here. One practical resource developed by Dawson Trotman, founder of The Navigators, is the “word hand” illustration. Each finger of the hand represents a way to “get hold” of the Bible. The smallest finger is hearing, the ring finger is reading, the next is studying, then memorizing and finally, the thumb is meditation. The thumb — meditation — is the one digit that touches all the other fingers, so meditation touches hearing, reading and so on. The word hand has been a helpful tool to engage with God in the Scriptures.

Like most authors, I love to read. Recently, I’ve been influenced by the writings of Wendell Berry. Visit any farmers market, and you will probably find a Wendell Berry book. His insights on agrarian life and the return to simplicity have profoundly marked my thinking. I also recommend the agrarian philosopher Norman Wirzba. These agrarian writers and philosophers have shaped my current life and ministry practice. Two books to begin with are “The Art of the Commonplace” by Berry and “Living the Sabbath” by Wirzba.

A “coach approach” to ministry has changed my long tenure of disciple-making. The essence of a coach approach is to ask questions that help people take responsibility and develop personal strategies for life and ministry change. The approach is simple: help people identify a desired future, assess their current reality and then identify practical action steps that bridge the gap between their desire and their reality. This approach to disciplemaking combines self-discovery with purposeful action. I have found that this “little-by-little” action plan moves people — myself included — from being victims to participants of change. Two helpful resources are “The Coach Model” by Keith Webb and “Living Forward” by Michael Hyatt and Daniel Harkavy. The Navigators also has an excellent app called Everyday Discipleship that helps you take others through a personalized discipleship journey.

We all have things we cling to to survive or even thrive in our fast-paced, techno-driven world. How have you been successful in harnessing technology to aid in your spiritual growth?

This is the hardest question for me to answer. My major hesitancy is the learning curve. There are so many fascinating things to read and people to talk with that taking the time to learn the latest upgrade of my smartphone or laptop ends up robbing me of the things I enjoy. I find myself weighing the benefits: will the time it takes to learn my phone’s new upgrades really pay the benefits of the time spent?

I probably fit in the tradition of the Luddites. These craftsmen were not against all technology; rather, they were against unfettered technological advances that destroyed the local craftsmen and communities while making a select few very rich (check out the book “Blood in the Machine: The Origins of the Rebellion Against Big Tech” by Brian Merchant). As Nicholas Carr (“The Shallows”) and others have documented, our fascination and immersion with technology, particularly social media, can rob us of deep thinking and in-depth relationships.

I know I sound like a curmudgeon. I want to and have learned how to utilize social media for my goals and interests. After all, I have a website that I regularly maintain (alongsider.com), but I pay someone else to do it. I regularly post a blog, but someone else manages the posting (check out my alongsider briefings on my website). I’m on LinkedIn, but I choose to be polite, not obsessive about communicating with everyone who touches base with me. I’m sorry that I can’t say more about my life in technology.

QUESTION #8: dream

God’s continually stirring new things in each of us. So give us the scoop! What’s beginning to stir in you but not yet fully awakened? What can we expect from you in the future?

As someone entering their mid-70s, I’m not as concerned about launching something new as leaving something behind. What do I want to leave behind?

I write, teach and coach to de-professionalize and simplify the Great Commission so that everyday believers can have a part. Too often, we assume that disciplemaking is the domain of the local church staff or para-church ministries staff. Writers and seminar leaders often complicate how to walk out the Great Commission. I want to help people disciple others in relational, intentional and thoughtful ways — with a dash of creativity!

I think my passion for everyday disciplemaking comes from my blue-collar background. My dad was a butcher, a meat cutter, and my mom worked in the school cafeteria. They were people without pretense, degrees or position but lived lives of influence through their faithfulness to Christ. Most believers live in this arena, trying to establish a faithful presence in their homes, neighborhoods or workplaces. We must resource and release these everyday believers, people like my parents.

I want to encourage relational disciplemaking, where it’s as simple as inviting people to walk with me as I walk with Jesus. Jesus set the example by showing how disciplemaking happens in the context of life and not religious settings (like a synagogue); it happens relationally.

Disciplemaking is more than a checklist of books read or curriculums completed. I want to encourage thoughtful disciplemaking — coming alongside people as individuals, asking questions, telling stories and encouraging application, accountability and giving affirmation. This is thoughtful disciplemaking.

Now let’s add a dash of creativity. Instead of buying the latest prepackaged program, let’s create approaches and tools that reflect the local — the people and needs of where we live, work or play.

What’s my fear? At my age, personal fear is not as dominant as outcome fear. Our culture wants quick fixes, immediate results and efficient programs. Disciplemaking takes time and doesn’t guarantee the quick fix and immediate result, and life is never efficient. My fear is that the church will continue to settle for what’s culturally convenient rather than what’s relational, intentional, thoughtful and creative.

For years, studies have shown that in-depth, meaningful interactions have long-lasting benefits for our minds and emotions. Rich conversation touches something deep within us that craves for connection — knowing others and being known in return.

Pause to take stock of your conversations this past week. Were most of them shallow? Were they draining or life-giving? How often did you engage in meaningful conversations that refreshed you? How can you increase those conversations in your life?

Bill Mowry