Brian Zahnd
9 min read ⭑
“But, ultimately, my obsession is not to write books; my obsession remains with Jesus Christ himself. My most important work is to share this sacred obsession with other people however I can.”
Brian Zahnd is a pastor-theologian and author who founded Word of Life Church, where he has pastored for the last 44 years. He’s the author of 12 books, including Sinners in the Hands of a Loving God, When Everything’s on Fire, and The Wood Between the Worlds. Brian and his wife, Peri, are enthusiastic hikers and enjoy long walking pilgrimages, including walking the Camino de Santiago in Spain four times. They live in St. Joseph, Missouri, and have three adult sons and eight grandchildren.
In this interview, Brian gives readers a behind-the-scenes look at some of the people, places, books, and resources that inspire him the most as well as some of the challenges that have shaped his journey. Continue reading to learn about how his most famous sermon series stemmed from his love of rock ‘n’ roll, how the Holy Spirit led him on a 40-day, 500-mile pilgrimage meditating on the meaning of the cross, and how two of his favorite restaurants were the backdrop for theological growth.
QUESTION #1: ACQUAINT
Food is always about more than food; it's also about home and people and love. So, how does a go-to meal at your favorite hometown restaurant reveal the true you behind your web bio?
Here in St. Joseph, Missouri I have two regular favorites: Sakura and Il Lazzarone — one a sushi place and the other a pizza joint. It should be noted that I do love sushi and pizza, but these are my favorite local restaurants for deeper reasons — deeper reasons that are different but related.
As I entered midlife, I developed a compelling desire to participate in the ongoing conversation regarding the God revealed in Jesus Christ that is Christian theology. To be a serious participant in this conversation, the price of admission is to be conversant on what has already been said. And so I began to read serious academic theology. I read voraciously day by day…and loved it!
I adopted a habit of going to Sakura every Wednesday afternoon, eating sushi, sipping sake and reading hardcore theology. Eventually I would just seat myself in the same corner booth, and the server would bring me my regular order. To this day I associate Sakura with the thrill of discovering great theology.
Eventually I began writing my own theological works, and this led to pastors from around the country wanting to meet with me and discuss their own spiritual-theological journey. We would usually talk for an hour or so in my study and then go to lunch. I always took my guests to Il Lazzarone for authentic Neapolitan pizza. (Not everyone likes sushi — but who doesn’t like pizza!) To this day Il Lazzarone reminds me of the profound, personal and sometimes poignant conversations I’ve had with many wonderful pastors.
Samuel Jerónimo; Unsplash
QUESTION #2: REVEAL
What “nonspiritual” activity have you found to be quite spiritual, after all? What quirky proclivity, out-of-the-way interest, or unexpected pursuit refreshes your soul?
I don’t know if this qualifies as a “quirky proclivity,” but I’m a fanatic about rock music. It captured my heart at the tender age of 12 and has stayed with me my whole life. It’s a genuine passion. From the classic rock era, some of my favorite artists are Led Zeppelin, the Rolling Stones and Neil Young. Among more contemporary artists, some of my favorites are Queens of the Stone Age, Fontaines D.C., and King Gizzard and the Lizard Wizard. Of course, those who know me know that my all-time favorite music artist is Bob Dylan. (You don’t compare Dylan with the Beatles; you compare Dylan with Shakespeare.) It’s Dylan that first inspired my love of language, and my books and sermons are always peppered with lines from the greatest bard of our era. People have come to associate me with Bob Dylan. When it was announced that Bob Dylan had won the Noble Prize for Literature, my phone blew up with texts from friends congratulating me — as if I had won the Noble Prize! Ha!
Okay, my obsession with rock ‘n’ roll may qualify as a little bit quirky, but it’s a quirky proclivity that has served me well. For the past 17 years, I’ve done a sermon series every August called “Finding God in the Music.” In this series I play a song — usually a song from the past 12 months and almost never an out-and-out Christian song — and use it as a way to explore spiritual and theological themes. It’s become wildly popular — easily the most popular thing I do in preaching.
QUESTION #3: CONFESS
Every superhero has a weakness; every human, too. We're just good at faking it. But who are we kidding? We’re all broken and in this thing together. So, what’s your kryptonite and how do you confront its power?
I dropped out of college when I was 20. I quit college mostly because I had always hated school from kindergarten onward, but also because I thought I had more important things to do — like preaching the gospel. I was a full-time pastor at 22. (And, by the way, I’m still leading the same church 44 years later.) But I’ve always been insecure about my lack of formal education. This was part of my drive to educate myself in philosophy and theology in my 40s and 50s — and I succeeded. Nevertheless, the lack of a formal degree continues to be a source of embarrassment. In 2024 St. Stephen’s University gave me an honorary doctorate, and I deeply appreciate that. Yet when the question comes up, “Where did you go to college or seminary?” — I still have to reply, “I didn’t.” And then I feel a ridiculous need to prove my philosophical and theological acumen. It’s a bad habit that I need to let go of. I believe I’m doing better these days.
QUESTION #4: FIRE UP
Tell us about your toil. How are you investing your professional time right now? What’s your current obsession? And why should it be ours?
Although I continue to be a part of the pastoral team at Word of Life Church and preach most Sundays, I believe my most important work these days is found in my writing. I’ve published 12 books in the past 17 years (that’s one book every year and a half), so I do have a nose-to-the-grindstone work ethic about writing. It’s hard work, but it’s work I love; I find it both rewarding and energizing. In some ways I see my role as standing in the gap between the theological academy and the church pew. I want to make the best of Christian theology accessible to the average lay reader. This seems to me to be important work. I’ve written books to help people discover the beauty of Christ that has too often been buried beneath the rubble of bad religion and acrimonious politics — books like “Beauty Will Save the World”and “Sinners In the Hands of A Loving God.” I’ve written books that challenge militarism and nationalism — “A Farewell To Mars” and “Postcards From Babylon.” I’ve written books for Advent and Lent — “The Anticipated Christ” and “The Unvarnished Jesus.” I’ve written books to help Christians sustain faith in a secular age — “Water To Wine” and “When Everything’s on Fire.” But, ultimately, my obsession is not to write books; my obsession remains with Jesus Christ himself. My most important work is to share this sacred obsession with other people however I can.
QUESTION #5: BOOST
Whether we’re Cashiers or CEOs, contractors or customer service reps, we all need God’s love flowing into us and back out into the world. How does the Holy Spirit invigorate your work? And how do you know it's God when it happens?
At the center of my spiritual life is morning prayer and especially a form of contemplative prayer that I call “sitting with Jesus.” It’s here that the books I will write are first conceived. It doesn’t happen in the form of a divine directive — “Brian, thou shalt write on such and such.” Rather, as I pray and contemplate Christ day after day, I slowly begin to perceive aspects of Christ that eventually impel me to write.
Though on one occasion it was more direct. On the first day of my first pilgrimage on the Camino de Santiago — a 500-mile walk from St.-Jean-Pied-de-Port, France, to Santiago de Compostela, Spain — I was sitting in prayer in a monastery chapel when I sensed the Holy Spirit give me these directions for the long pilgrimage I was just beginning:
“Enter every church you can. Pay attention to the crucifix. Ask this question: ‘What does this mean?’ And don’t be too quick to give an answer.”
And that’s what I did. The Camino turned into a 40-day, 500-mile walking meditation on the meaning of the cross. And I wasn’t too quick in giving an answer. It was seven years later that I wrote “The Wood Between the Worlds: A Poetic Theology of the Cross.”
QUESTION #6: inspire
Scripture and tradition beckon us into the rich and varied habits that open our hearts to the presence of God. So, let us in. Which spiritual practice is working best for you in this season?
My wife and I have long been enthusiastic hikers. We’ve been hiking in the Rocky Mountains for nearly 40 years, and it’s always been tonic for our souls. Over the past decade, this has turned into a real passion for long walking pilgrimages. We’ve walked 1,500 miles during eight pilgrimages in Spain, Portugal, England, Scotland and Israel. These have all been powerful spiritual experiences that have changed our lives. These pilgrimages have restored our souls and established us in a profound and abiding peace. To have our lives reduced to the blessed simplicity of walking a dozen or so miles a day and carrying on our backs all that we need is one way we transport our souls far from the madding crowd of modernity. I can honestly say my pilgrim self is my best self.
My wife and I are at the stage of life where we can do things like this, and so we do. But I also understand that not everyone is at the same stage of life or has the same opportunities that we do. So let me also suggest that any walk — in the woods, through a park or just around the block — can become a spiritual pilgrimage if engaged with holy intent. It doesn’t have to be a prayer walk; just let it be a walk with a prayerful awareness of both the goodness of creation and the goodness of the Creator Christ. I’m a fervent advocate for this kind of spiritual practice because I know how much healing it can bring.
QUESTION #7: FOCUS
Looking backward, considering the full sweep of your unique faith journey and all you encountered along the way, what top three resources stand out to you? What changed reality and changed your heart?
I live in a world of books, so books are resources that have most shaped me. And though it’s almost impossible to limit it to three, these three certainly stand out:
“The Brothers Karamazov” by Fyodor Dostoevsky. This is my all-time favorite novel. I’ve read it 11 times and taught a 10-week online course on it. I like to describe it as a theological masterpiece disguised as the greatest novel ever written. I don’t know if I’ve ever written a book without at least one reference to “The Brothers Karamazov.”
“Jesus and the Victory of God” by N.T. Wright. This was one of my first introductions to serious New Testament scholarship, and 20-some years later it remains a favorite. I turn to it often. (Wright’s popular-level version of this book is “How God Became King.”)
“The Prophetic Imagination” by Walter Brueggemann. The first two books I’ve mentioned are quite long. This one is only 150 pages — but it packs a mighty punch! This profound work literally changed how I read the Old Testament. Walter Brueggamann eventually became a friend, and my admiration for him as a modern-day prophet is boundless. Walter passed away last year at the age of 92, but his work lives on in the more than 100 books he wrote. “The Prophetic Imagination” is the place to begin.
Certain things can be godsends, helping us survive, even thrive, in our fast-paced world. Does technology ever help you this way? Has an app ever boosted your spiritual growth? If so, how?
I don’t have any cool app to recommend (that’s not really my world), but I can say that being able to text with my four best friends every day has been a real godsend that has absolutely boosted my spiritual growth. The five of us live in three different U.S. states and Canada; nevertheless, we stay in daily contact. Friendship is among the greatest of God's gifts to us, and if technology can help facilitate and preserve friendship, I’m all for it. The text thread I’m referring to is named “The Squad,” and these friends are so important to me that I dedicated “When Everything’s on Fire” to The Squad. I often describe our friendship as a theological collaboration.
QUESTION #8: dream
God’s continually stirring new things in each of us. So, give us the scoop! What’s beginning to stir in you but not yet fully awakened? What can we expect from you in the future?
The gospel is a story. It’s not an abstract formula or a set of spiritual laws, but a story. It’s the beautiful drama of how God creates, loves and redeems the world through Jesus Christ. In recognizing that the gospel is a story, I'm not suggesting that the gospel is fiction; rather, I’m saying the gospel has a narrative structure. The essential components of story are all present in the gospel. There’s a setting; there’s conflict, climax and resolution. There are heroes and villains. The gospel has many antagonists and one great Protagonist; it’s full of drama, suspense, intrigue, tragedy and the greatest surprise ending of all time. It’s good news that the Good News is a story and not an arcane theological lecture.
For several years now I’ve been thinking about how all the great stories, myths and epics throughout history — whether from before Christ or after Christ — are in one way or another trying to tell the true story, the true myth, the true epic that is the gospel of Jesus Christ.
It has been suggested by some literary scholars that all great stories are comprised from one or more of seven basic plots: Overcoming the Monster, Rags to Riches, The Quest, Voyage and Return, Comedy, Tragedy, and Rebirth. I find it fascinating that the gospel can be told in all seven of these genres. Since I am fascinated by this idea, I think it is safe to assume that over the next few years the theme of Jesus Christ as Lord of the Story will find its way into my writing. I’m excited about it!
Brian Zahnd has a way of helping others see the miraculous in the ordinary. Simple things like a sushi lunch or an afternoon walk can become places of divine encounter when we have eyes to see and ears to hear. Brian says, “So let me also suggest that any walk — in the woods, through a park or just around the block — can become a spiritual pilgrimage if engaged with holy intent.” Ask God to help you recognize holy moments hidden in the routine you’re familiar with today. Take a walk with the intent of having an open heart and eyes to see with wonder, and ask him to transform the time with his presence and truth.
Brian Zahnd is a pastor-theologian from St. Joseph, Missouri. He is the founding pastor of Word of Life Church and the author of twelve books. Brian and his wife, Peri, are enthusiastic hikers and enjoy long walking pilgrimages, including walking the Camino de Santiago in Spain four times. They have three adult sons and eight grandchildren.