Jonathan Pokluda
10 min read ⭑
“So much of the Christian life consists of trying to avoid our sins when, really, Jesus calls us to an abundant life. And if we pursue the counterpart, the virtue, we often avoid the sin — just by pursuing the virtue.”
The following is a transcript of a live interview. Responses have been edited and condensed for brevity and clarity.
QUESTION #1: ACQUAINT
There’s much more to food than palate and preference. How does a go-to meal at your favorite hometown restaurant reveal the true you behind the web bio?
I love a good experience, so if I can do anything, it’s going to be sitting at a table with great friends.
My ideal dinner with friends includes a perfectly prepared steak, bacon-wrapped asparagus with butter and well-cooked, creamy mashed potatoes without the skins. I would pair that with a great glass of wine and a server who refills the water cup without interrupting the conversation as my friends and I talk.
As I described that scene, I realized the food was more of an afterthought to the experience, where we were, and who I was with. I think that probably says a lot about my personality.
There’s a place here in Waco called DiamondBack’s and a newer restaurant where my daughter works called Oak & Ivy Wine Bar Bistro that I really like. For me, it’s about the experience.
nick mercer; Unsplash
QUESTION #2: REVEAL
We’ve all got quirky proclivities and out-of-the-way interests. So what are yours? What so-called “nonspiritual” activities do you love and help you find spiritual renewal?
I don’t watch sports. I rarely — if ever — sit at the house and watch a game.
Instead, if I have an hour to kill when I can do anything I want to do (within reason, of course), I’m going to go on Facebook Marketplace to look for a deal and something to buy and sell. Over the years, I’ve bought everything from motorcycles to golf carts, cars, buildings, skateboards, wakeboards, baseball cards, gold, silver, guns and collectibles. All the things. If somebody is looking for a car, they’ll let me know because I look at a lot of cars throughout the week — every week.
Browsing things to buy and sell online is a hobby of mine. I love to muse. Every night after I’ve said goodnight and tucked the kids in, I’ll get on Facebook Marketplace or Craigslist and muse through the offerings of that day.
QUESTION #3: CONFESS
Every superhero has a weakness. Every human, too. We’re just good at faking it. But who are we kidding? We’re broken and in this thing together. So what’s your kryptonite and how do you hide it?
There are a lot of things that could be my kryptonite. Sometimes, I just feel like an insecure sixth-grader who didn’t get chosen to play dodgeball. I can go through life with a “Hey, pick me” attitude.
I know that’s unbecoming of someone who believes the gospel, so that’s something that I have to consecrate, pray about and ask the Holy Spirit to take over. I also know that, like any kryptonite, insecurity can take me out.
This is probably one of the deeper struggles in my life. If we were with my therapist and we tried to psychoanalyze where that came from, we might point out that I’m 6 feet and 7 inches tall and 250 pounds — and I never played sports well. I played basketball but not well. I played football — not well. I ran track, but I was slow.
God taught me humility through athletics. Unfortunately for me, how athletic you are can define a lot of your self-worth in junior high and high school, particularly for guys. So there’s that.
Another struggle is that I’m disorganized and tend to stay at a 30,000-foot level. If I have to go to 100 feet and get into the details, something usually starts slipping through the cracks. I would drop some balls if I have to come down, so I’m at my best just staying at the visionary level.
QUESTION #4: FIRE UP
Tell us about your toil. How are you investing your professional time right now? What’s your obsession? And why should it be ours?
I live in two worlds. One is the local church as 1 Peter 5:2-3 describes: “Shepherd the flock of God that is among you.” I pastor 145-year-old Harris Creek Baptist Church outside the city of Waco. It’s in the country near another town called McGregor. So that’s where I go every day and that’s the staff I lead and serve. Every week, I write sermons, work on raising communicators and preachers, and care for staff and the church body. That’s one of the worlds.
The second world is everything outside of that. I’m an author, speaker and teacher consultant, so once or twice a month, I get on a plane and go somewhere to speak. My church team and I also do a podcast called “Becoming Something” that reaches millions of people around the world. I published five books, I help the church reach young people, and every Friday, I answer questions on Instagram called “Friday Q&A.” You can go on there and ask anything. I’ve been asked over 500,000 questions, and I’ve answered thousands of them. That’s some of the other work I’m involved in.
My most recent book is “Why Do I Do What I Don’t Want to Do?” It’s the longest title ever and plagiarized from Paul in Romans 7, but the book is not really about Romans 7. In fact, I hardly mention Romans 7 in there. It’s really about vices and virtues and how so much of the Christian life consists of trying to avoid our sins when, really, Jesus calls us to an abundant life. And if we pursue the counterpart, the virtue, we often avoid the sin — just by pursuing the virtue.
Here’s an example: I can try not to be greedy, but if I live a life of generosity, I’m most likely not going to be greedy. And I can try not to be prideful, but if I pursue humility, then then the pride is going to take care of itself. That’s the premise of the book, and it goes over several vices and virtues. Some of them are reminiscent of the seven deadly sins, and some of the struggles are more modern.
QUESTION #5: BOOST
Cashiers, CEOs, contractors, or customer service reps, we all need grace flowing into us and back out into the world. How does the Holy Spirit invigorate your work? And how do you know it’s God when it happens?
This question reminds me of Colossians 1:29, where Paul says, “I strenuously contend with all of Christ’s power at work in me.” That idea of strenuously contending with Christ’s power resonates with me.
I’ve recently taken an interest in a book called “The Seven Primal Questions” by Mike Foster. My primal question is “Do I have a purpose?”
What I’ve learned about myself through that question is that I have an obsession with helping other people find their purpose. When we operate within our strengths to meet the needs around us in the name of Jesus, the Holy Spirit is activated in and through us — sometimes even supernaturally. Sometimes, we get to experience a miracle or something that goes beyond coincidence. Those moments are incredible.
To answer the rest of the question (regarding how I know when it’s God), I don’t think I know when it happens with any level of certainty. But I think that’s the essence of faith — that for us to have faith, there can’t be certainty. It has to be out of our belief, knowledge, and awareness of and love for God. So when we do those things soberly aware of God, then we do them in faith, thinking, Hey, that was in partnership with God and the Holy Spirit. But it’s not necessarily when we say, “Hey, man, look at what God did with that.” It sounds certain, but it rarely is certain, and I don’t know that it ever is for me. It just seems that way.
QUESTION #6: inspire
Scripture and tradition beckon us into the rich and varied actions that open our hearts to the presence of God. So spill it, which spiritual practice is workin’ best for you right now?
I read a book called “A Praying Life” by Paul Miller several years ago. In it, he talks about prayer cards. I found that to be a great practice for me to make sure that I’m praying for the right things for my kids, my marriage, the church, the staff and protection from the enemy. I use 3-inch-by-5-inch index cards, and I write a subject on the top and several bullets underneath of what I’m praying for the subject.
For example, one might say “Monica” (my wife) at the top, and underneath, I would write, “Help me to love her as Christ loved the church and to make sacrifices for her. Put her interests before my own. I pray that she feels cherished today.”
I’ll write those kinds of things on the card. and then I might write a verse like Ephesians 5:25 or 5:22 or another Scripture like Colossians 3 or 1 Peter 3. Then I’ll write one for each of my kids. Those prayer cards have been a really beneficial practice in this season.
QUESTION #7: FOCUS
Our email subscribers get free ebooks featuring our favorite resources—lots of things that have truly impacted our faith lives. But you know about some really great stuff, too. What are three resources that have impacted you?
Generally speaking, it would be something like Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or Audible. I’m an auditory learner. I don’t love to read, so I listen to books instead. I think I learn from so many commentaries while writing sermons that I love to take a break with books of people who are living out their faith. I’ve recently taken an affinity for Bob Goff. Bob Goff and I would disagree on some theological viewpoints — I don’t even know what they are, by the way, so that’s not meant to be a loaded statement — yet I really enjoy the stories of how he lives out his faith. Those stir and inspire me and so do other podcasts like that.
There’s an organization out there called the Eden Project. It’s led by some friends of mine who talk about how to know God and know ourselves, what it looks like to have a right relationship with him, and how people think and digest information. That’s been helpful and rather fascinating.
I set up a prompt via text message that sends people a list of five helpful books if they text the word “books” to 254-274-3131. None of the books are my own — just five helpful theological books. I set up this text message prompt because I get asked that question so much during Friday Q&A.
We all have things we cling to to survive (or thrive) in tough times. Name one resource you’ve found indispensable in this current season — and tell us what it’s done for you.
My answer is a bit unorthodox, but I would say my indispensable resource is my Tonal, which is a home gym. I bought a used one on Facebook Marketplace, and it’s revolutionized my workouts. Tonal has been such a hack for me to lift at the house, and I’ve been so impressed by the technology.
A Tonal folds flat into the wall like a mirror. It has a bench and two arms that fold out. The mirror turns on like a big TV featuring a trainer who can walk you through an exercise. The Tonal is meant for resistance training, so I can load it up. I can do bench presses, squats, curls, triceps, biceps, and lat pull-downs. Really, any exercise I can do at the gym with weights I can also do on the Tonal. And it’s smart, so it can adjust the weights on the fly. If it senses that I’m struggling with something, it can adjust, or it can add more weight. It’s a really intuitive machine. And it’s been the best thing ever.
QUESTION #8: dream
God is continually stirring new things in each of us. So give us the scoop! What’s beginning to stir in you but not yet fully awakened? What can we expect from you in the future?
I’m thinking a lot about the future of the church. How can we do church in a way that honors him but also keeps us from getting stuck in this routine of showing up on Sunday mornings for 30 minutes of worship and 40 minutes of teaching?
What will church look like? Will it utilize virtual reality or artificial intelligence? Would it be in the home? What if, instead of pews and forward-facing chairs, we’re in a circle around a table? How would auditoriums, worship centers, and sanctuaries change?
Those are the questions I’m asking as I think about the future of the church. How can we do church in a way that’s creative yet still God-honoring and biblical? To speak truth in a worldly way but that still counts? And what freedoms do we have to try new things and honor God in that?
I’m also writing a book on spiritual warfare right now with a working title of Your Story Has a Villain. It’s about what the Bible says about spiritual warfare, what the enemy can do, and what can’t he do.
For example, suppose I try to go to church on Sunday, but my car won’t start because my battery’s dead, and I say, “Oh, man, this is spiritual warfare.” Can the enemy actually drain my car battery? And how does he do that? And if it turns out to be my alternator, was it still spiritual warfare? I’m just trying to answer the basic questions about spiritual warfare, which I think is a topic that a lot of people misunderstand.
Earlier in the interview, Jonathan got honest about a struggle with insecurity. It might sound strange to hear that a successful pastor and author like him would ever struggle with insecurity, but here’s the truth—almost every single one of us does, too.
How often do we compare ourselves to other people and nitpick the ways we fall short? We’re not as smart, not as attractive, not as talented, not as successful—the thoughts fill our mind until, before we know it, we’re limiting the ways we believe God can use us.
But all these forms of comparison miss an important truth that God told the prophet Samuel just before he anointed young David to be the next king of Israel: “The Lord doesn’t see things the way you see them. People judge by outward appearance, but the Lord looks at the heart” (1 Samuel 16:7, NLT).
Can we remember this truth next time we’re tempted to compare ourselves to others?
Jonathan “JP” Pokluda is the lead pastor of Harris Creek Baptist Church in Waco, Texas. He was the leader of The Porch in Dallas, Texas, which grew to be the country’s largest weekly young adult gathering of its kind. His bestselling book, Welcome to Adulting, offers Millennials a road map to navigating faith, dating, finances and the future. He’s also written Outdated and Why Do I Do What I Don’t Want to Do? JP’s partner in ministry is Monica, his wife of 17 years. Together, they disciple their children, Presley, Finley and Weston.
