Judah Smith has become one of the most recognizable voices in the church today thanks to his easygoing, trendy style and authentic demeanor. He’s also the author of the New York Times bestselling book Jesus Is: Find a New Way to Be Human, which captured national attention for its fresh and approachable take on faith. As lead communicator at Churchome, he works to demystify the Bible with humor and clarity, making truth accessible for everyday people. His pastoral career — from running a youth ministry to founding and co-pastoring Churchome with his wife, Chelsea — has revolved around one message: true freedom is found in depending on Christ’s finished work, not our own performance.

Join us now for a conversation with Judah about his commitment to the West Coast and why golf and date nights with his wife are nonnegotiable. You’ll also discover the spiritual habits and sermons that have changed his life and the latest biblical truth that’s captivating his attention.

The following is a transcript of a live interview. Responses have been edited and condensed for brevity and clarity.

QUESTION #1: ACQUAINT

The meals we enjoy are about so much more than the food we eat. So how does a “go-to” meal at your favorite hometown restaurant reveal the true you behind your web bio?

I was born and raised in Portland, Oregon, but moved to Seattle when I was 13, so Seattle was home for many, many years. My favorite spot, which is no longer there, was Lot No. 3 in downtown Bellevue. We lived in a condo just above the restaurant. My favorite meal there was a side of unbelievable fries and a sourdough PB&J that was absolutely out of control.

Since then, we’ve spent a lot of our time in Los Angeles, especially Venice Beach. I love Venice. I love the creatives. I love all the people in Venice, and there is this cafe called Great White. It’s run by a great group of people from Australia, and they have incredible Aussie-inspired breakfast food that I’m obsessed with. To me, I could eat at a morning breakfast cafe for the rest of my life. I could also probably spend the majority of my remaining life in Venice. I just love the people. I love the culture. I love the vibe. I love all the conversations. Maybe that’s the Portland in me. Keep Portland weird, as they say. That’s the theme of the city. I’m West Coast to my core. I bleed West Coast. I read West Coast. You meet me and immediately see that I’m West Coast with all my heart.

a golf putting green — Yuri Antonenko; Unsplash

QUESTION #2: REVEAL

We’ve all got quirky proclivities and out-of-the-way interests. So what are yours? What so-called “nonspiritual” activity do you love engaging in that also helps you find essential spiritual renewal?

I love this question because secular vs. sacred is an old Egyptian concept. It’s not even biblical. The earth is the Lord’s and the fullness thereof. So this idea of secular and sacred, I think, is a very slippery slope and very misleading. When it comes to our hobbies and the things that we enjoy, as Paul said, all things are lawful, but not all things are beneficial. Not all things feed my soul and give me energy. Some sap my soul.

My guide to hobbies and things that restore starts with, “What is beneficial? What builds me up? What encourages me?” For me, that’s golf. It invigorates me. It also frustrates me to no end and reveals the darkest side of my soul. From that perspective, I’m not sure if it’s beneficial — maybe I’ve gone unbiblical with it. Truth be told, I am a raging maniac on the golf course at times, but it’s probably good for me. I’ve had to ask my sons, who are 21 and 18 years old, to forgive me more times than I can possibly count. They find it very, very humorous to watch the 12-year-old come out of their dad. In that regard, it’s been humbling.

Another practice I do is date night with my wife, and it’s the only thing I’m religious about. We love spontaneous getaways. It can be an overnight stay or a getaway to a new little spot for lunch or breakfast.

I think hobbies and diversions are important. I’ve heard it said so many times that escapism is bad. But I say that if you’re going to have an affair, have an affair with your wife. If you want to get away and escape, go do it with the love of your life, have some fun with it and have some freedom. If you want, give each other new names and have fun. There’s so much freedom in the message of Jesus and the way of Jesus. We tend to overthink it, overcook it and overdo it. Some things aren’t spiritual; some things are natural, and they’re to be enjoyed naturally and admired. Jesus said to consider the lilies, consider the flowers and consider that those are big deals to him. He said to stop, smell the flowers and look at the birds — they don’t need to toil or suffer. They don’t worry or fear, and yet God takes care of them. In other words, Jesus is saying, “Naturally, I’m going to take care of you.” That means a lot to me. So I’m a big proponent of hobbies. I think men without hobbies often develop secret ones. So I’m into public-facing hobbies. Be honest with yourself and enjoy it.

QUESTION #3: CONFESS

Every superhero has a weakness; every human, too. We’re just good at faking it. But who are we kidding? We’re all broken and in this thing together. So what’s your kryptonite and how do you confront its power head-on?

My mom used to say, “For every man’s strength, there is a compensating weakness.” I’m a hopeless romantic, including in my preaching and presentations. I recently did a business presentation, and in it, people could see my romantic side. I’m emotional and passionate. Maybe that’s why I like going to Italy!

But in that, there’s a compensating weakness. Being a hopeless romantic, I struggle in some of the emotional areas. I get angry a lot. I can struggle with lust. I don’t mean to say that those struggles are cliché, nor do I try to justify my actions with other people’s. But people who are passionate and romantic typically struggle with certain things. Again, these are gross generalizations that I’m in no way saying are biblical or even necessarily right. But naturally speaking, I can struggle with anger, lust and escapism, and so I have to be honest about those things. If I’m traveling, I go with another friend, if not with my wife, and I’m honest with myself and my challenges.

I don’t find shame in admitting these struggles. I think Jesus has taken away the shame, and we’re free to be honest and candid about who we are. That’s why I’m into this message of Jesus in the gospel, because I think we can all be honest about who we are. When somebody shares with me their struggle, my response is, “Thank you, bro. That helps me share mine.” If we all share our struggle and our kryptonite, then first of all, it’ll be less “kryptonic” — which is definitely not a word — and second of all, we’ll be less likely to keep it secret and let things grow in the dark.

QUESTION #4: FIRE UP

Tell us about your toil. How are you investing your professional time right now? What’s your current obsession? And why should it be ours?

For me, an obsession can last one day, one week or one year. My current obsession this week revolves around the idea of what God wants from me. After his affair with Bathsheba, David said in Psalm 54 that a flawless performance means nothing to God. What he wants is a broken heart. What he wants is somebody who needs him.

I’m also obsessed with the narrative behind the two criminals on the cross. One says, “Why me?” The other says, “Remember me.” One can’t see past his pain and asks God, “Why are you letting this pain happen if you’re God? Take us down from this tree.” The other is so mesmerized by what he sees in Jesus that he can see past his pain. He doesn’t ask Jesus to fix his pain. He just asks Jesus to think of him in eternity.

Often, we want God to change our circumstances. But I don’t think God cares about our performance as much as we think he does. He’s not a performative God. Now, if you work or compete in sports somewhere, much is based on your performance. But in God’s realm, which is freeing and liberating, it’s not performative. He did all the performing for us, so we’re free. What he wants from us is that same heart posture from the second criminal. He said, “Do you even fear God? We were wrong. We did evil. We’re getting our just due.” This man, apparently so mesmerized by Jesus, can tell that Jesus has done nothing wrong. Then he says, “Remember me when you come into your kingdom,” and Jesus treats this as a tender moment. He says, “I will. Today you’ll be with me in paradise.”

I’m obsessed with this idea of “What does God want from my life?” I don’t think he wants my preaching. I don’t think he wants my book writing. I don’t think God’s in heaven going, “Oh, good thing you preached. If you hadn’t written that book, my plan wouldn’t have prevailed on the earth.” No, what he wants from me is brokenness and a willingness to say, “God, I never needed you more than I need you right now. And by the way, if you never fix my pain, I’ll still love and follow you.” Can you imagine believing in a Jesus who won’t take you off the cross and save you? And yet that second criminal did. That’s the kind of faith I want. I want that real, genuine, authentic faith. That really is my obsession right now. I think I’m going to preach on it this Sunday, because it’s really, really ministering to me.

Now, regarding a longer-term obsession, I’ll point to the premise of my latest book, “Bad Thoughts: A Preacher and a Shrink’s Guide to Reclaiming Your Mind and Soul.” It offers insights from the Bible and therapy to deal with our toxic thoughts. My pain with therapy is that everyone says, “Go get therapy.” Well, that’s a very expensive encouragement. Therapy is not cheap. When a preacher says, “Go get therapy,” I want to ask, “Who’s going to pay for it? You?”

I’m grateful for places like BetterHelp. I’ve had the privilege of having a therapist. That’s a real gift. But if you can’t get therapy, you can read the book I wrote with my therapist, Les Parrott. By the way, I don’t pay him — he does it for free, which is ironic. The first part of our book talks about shame and how grace is not earned or deserved. You’re freely loved and accepted. That is literally what has changed my life. There are five toxic thoughts people often adopt, and I want to approach them spiritually and naturally. Since I’m a preacher and he’s a shrink, I’ll give you some biblical perspective and he’ll give you the doctoral-level insight. His research is extensive, and I’m really proud of the project. I’m proud of how it will age. I think it’s evergreen in that regard. The stories are old in some cases, even ancient, and it’s going to ring true for a long time. I’m happy about it. Les and I have such different personalities. I have a dry, sarcastic humor that often annoys him, but it’s good for him. The tension between us two is also fun for the reader. It’s as honest as I can be. This is a book that you can read within a few hours. You’ll feel smart. You’ll feel encouraged. You’ll get tools to help you with the five toxic thoughts that we all think.

QUESTION #5: BOOST

Cashiers, CEOs, contractors or customer service reps, we all need grace flowing into us and back out into the world. How does the Holy Spirit invigorate your work? And how do you know it’s God when it happens?

The kingdom of God is righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Ghost, and the work of the Holy Spirit is to establish you in the domain of the King. The Holy Spirit houses you in the safe walls of the kingdom of the King. Look at kingdoms of antiquity — they were protected by walls. You lived within the walls because the King and his kingdom would insulate you and protect you, and you would pay taxes in return. Well, I have good news: there are no taxes in this kingdom. The King is every bit, if not more of, the lion C.S. Lewis wrote about in “The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe.” He is kind. He is strong. As one of the animals said, “‘Course he isn’t safe. But he’s good. He’s the King, I tell you!”

I know the Holy Spirit’s working in my life when I have an awareness of my imputed, gifted righteousness, which produces two predominant emotions — peace and joy. Those are the signs that I am well within the domain of the King, even when I’m on the streets of Los Angeles, clubs, concerts, shows or backstage with wild people. (My life has taken me to some crazy places.) But when I have that overwhelming sense that I am who I am by the gift of God, the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus, I experience peace and joy — and I know the Holy Spirit is working in and through me.

Oftentimes, when I think I’ve heard from him, it produces an awareness, not of my performance, but of the perfect performance of Jesus. That, in turn, produces shalom, a sense of wholeness and completeness, which is what true peace is. Then it becomes an emotional disposition of joy, which is transcended. It’s not emotional and circumstantial; rather, it’s anchored. The joy is anchored to the free gift of Jesus, and I know that he’s working. That might sound silly, but that is how I’ve lived my life and how I’ve determined when it’s him talking and working.

QUESTION #6: inspire

Scripture and tradition beckon us into the rich and varied habits that open our hearts to the presence of God. So let us in. Which spiritual practice is working best for you in this season?

“Meditation” means to mutter, and “wait” means to whirl. I think my two favorite practices right now are muttering and whirling with God. Waiting is not asking God to arrive. Waiting is whirling literally like a child around your circumstance, around the painful place you find yourself. So you can whirl with God, which is an act of worship — waiting. Then you can mutter with God, which is also an act of prayer and worship. And muttering is again, a very childlike act.

I think we’ve taken these spiritual practices and turned them into something ornate, elevated and overly spiritual. But I think it’s supposed to be the act of a child. It’s an overwhelming dependence that says, “I’m going to mutter here and I’m going to whirl here. I’m going to put my hand in his hand.”

Take the story of Jericho, for instance. It’s a story of whirling. Walking around your circumstance may make no sense, but here God comes. Muttering and whirling work for me.

QUESTION #7: FOCUS

Looking backward, considering the full sweep of your unique faith journey and all you encountered along the way, what top three resources stand out to you? What changed reality and your heart?

I would be remiss not to mention 1 Timothy and 2 Timothy. There are two main functions when you read the Bible: you look for Jesus and then you look for you. What I mean by that is you look for the character that most connects with you. I found myself in Timothy. I felt like Paul was talking to me, and my life took a similar shape. When I’m in my head, frustrated and annoyed, I go to 1 and 2 Timothy, and I listen to a father talk to me again. That is not good hermeneutics, by the way. By no means am I suggesting that’s how you should interpret the Scripture. But the Scripture gives life, and that gives life to me. I believe there’s a book somewhere in the Bible that was meant for you. There’s a character in the Bible that’s most like you. But let’s not forget, as much as we’re supposed to be like David, for example, he’s not the main character. Jesus is the main character. The point isn’t to be like David. It’s to be like Jesus. And yet I do find great solace for my soul with Timothy.

I also recommend Bishop T.D. Jakes’ preaching. When I was a young boy, his words made me emotional. At 13 years old, I found a tape from “Manpower.” I think the year was 1994 or 1995. He preached a message called “Favor Ain’t Fair.” At one point, he said, “Let me take these glasses off and tell you who he is to me,” and he went through the Old Testament and revealed Jesus. He is the manna, the ram caught in the thicket, the bread of life and the mercy seat. I was in awe. The Bible became a gorgeous love story that I fell in love with.

The last resource would be my dad’s preaching. You can get his sermons from the Wendell E Smith Foundation. My dad’s preaching changed my life. We traveled full-time, going to every state in the union except North and South Dakota. I listened to my dad do the same four sermons in three days, and I started joining him on stage at 8 years old, where I’d tell my testimony of how I almost died three times before I was 3 years old. My message was that God has a destiny for my life and a plan for my life. The devil tried to kill me, but I’m still alive, and I’m going to be a preacher like my dad. That shaped me. My dad told me, “Everyone loves you and wants to hear what you have to say.” I was too young to know any different, so I’ve believed that for a long, long time. In a weird sort of way, I’ve always said, “I look forward to listening to what I’m going to say next,” because I rarely plan it. Of course, my wife hates that because everything she does and says is planned, but we make a good team.

All of these preachers — Paul in 1 and 2 Timothy, Bishop Jakes and my dad, Pastor Wendell Smith — had a profound impact on my life. “The Fresh Prince of Bel-Air” had a big impact in my life as well.

We all have things we cling to to survive or even thrive in our fast-paced, techno-driven world. How have you been successful in harnessing technology to aid in your spiritual growth?

Like money, technology is what you make of it. It’s neither good nor bad. I’m currently off all social media. I got back on Instagram for five or six months, and I really struggled, particularly with the Christian ether of performance. Not because I know better or think better. I just think there’s so much more freedom to be had in the finished work of Jesus and his perfect performance. I don’t mean proclaimers, preachers and teachers as much as I mean the fodder of Jesus followers who are so normal and so like me. We so quickly go back to “Do I pray enough? Do I read enough? Do I do enough?” And man, it really affects my soul. Sometimes I feel like I’m fighting a tidal wave with a Wiffle ball bat. I can’t hold it off. We’re so prone to thinking about ourselves and our performance, and yet I think freedom is in thinking about Jesus and his performance. That’s why I’ve struggled with social media.

I’m 46, so at my age, I don’t even know exactly what’s going on. But I do know that AI has been awesome. ChatGPT is wild. I’m enjoying that, but in general, I’m a big abstainer. That said, I also have the privilege of having people who help me make sure that we’re still getting the message out, along with people who connect with and DM me. Some of my closest friends are from DMs on Twitter and Instagram.

QUESTION #8: dream

God’s continually stirring new things in each of us. So give us the scoop! What’s beginning to stir in you but not yet fully awakened? What can we expect from you in the future?

I’m working on what may be the biggest, most important project of my life. It’s been brewing for seven years or so. You’ll be able to do an overview of the whole Bible and understand it and its main points in about 20 days. We want to do something theatrical. We want to do a limited series. We want to do movies.

It’s going to be from the culture for the culture. What I mean is that the whole program won’t be geared toward the Christian community. We won’t serve up clichés that resonate with the Christian community. We’re going to try to translate the most mystical book in human history to the average person. The idea is that the person who’s about to read or watch this has no idea what’s going on, and we’re going to fill them in. I’m obsessed with it right now. We have 20 chapters, which could be 20 episodes or 20 acts in a play. It’s going to be first person. Imagine Abraham talking, imagine Adam and Eve talking, imagine Joshua talking, imagine Moses talking and telling you their story. It all culminates and fulfills in the person of Jesus, of course. I’m pretty obsessed with it.

As Judah said in his interview, there’s so much freedom in the kingdom of Jesus. It’s not a kingdom of rules but one of power, love, peace and joy. This week, let’s take stock of our hearts. Are there certain rules we’re holding onto simply because we think they’ll make God or other people like us better? Where does Jesus need to heal us so that we rely on his performance alone?

🎉 Easter Egg Activated!

Judah Smith