Melanie Penn’s journey has taken her from Broadway stages to church sanctuaries and recording studios. Her pop music blends faith and culture, always pointing back to Jesus. As a classically trained vocalist, she built her career in New York’s theater scene, where she played Sandy in Grease! After witnessing the tragedy of 9/11, she joined the late Tim Keller’s church, Redeemer Presbyterian Church, and eventually began leading worship there.

Since then, Melanie has devoted her professional time to writing songs that tell stories of hope. She’s collaborated on projects like Wake Up Love and Hope Tonight with Ben Shive and released her own albums, such as Immanuel and her latest, The Rising.

We recently sat down with Melanie to learn more about the heart behind the music. In our conversation, she shared her love for New York City (and why she left it to move to Nashville), the ways envy can easily creep into an artist’s life and the disciplines she’s adding to her spiritual tool belt.

The following is a transcript of a live interview. Responses have been edited and condensed for brevity and clarity.

QUESTION #1: ACQUAINT

Food is always about more than food; it’s also about home and people and love. So how does a go-to meal at your favorite hometown restaurant reveal the true you behind your web bio?

I live in Nashville now, but in a lot of ways, I still consider New York my adult home, because it’s where I have lived the longest in my life. What I love about restaurants in New York is that they’re where any relationship actually happens since apartments are often too small to have people over. I had plenty of friends in New York whose apartments only had a room with a bed. It’s like there was nowhere to even sit and hang out with a friend. There’s something about eating any kind of meal in New York at any restaurant that says, “We’re truly in relationship.”

A lot of people, including me and some of my friends, left New York during COVID. A friend of mine who had left went back to New York and was in a restaurant when she texted a group of us friends. She said, “Here I am, sitting in a New York City restaurant, and everyone around me is having the most interesting conversations they’ve ever had.” It’s true because that is where all the important conversations happen. That’s where all the steps forward in a friendship happen. Eating out in New York is not casual. It’s very intentional — who you’re with, the time you’re spending and the things you’re talking about.

As much as I love New York’s restaurants, I left the city in August of 2020, even though I never thought I would. A lot of the New York City DNA was built into me. The idea was, “This is where you live now. You have to be committed to this city, no matter how much it costs.” I really imbibed that and felt that in my spirit. So when COVID happened, all my income as a singer went away and the world became so wobbly, it provided the impetus for my leaving. I kept an apartment in New York vacant for many months. Then, ultimately, I had to let it go due to the financial burden.

After I left New York, I was quarantined with my parents in Virginia. Concurrently with COVID, my father got cancer and died. It was a super intense season. I found myself as a grown adult with a surviving parent who was aging. I had to think about what to do with that situation. It was like adulthood 2.0 — life changed. I moved to Nashville and brought my mother down to live with me.

QUESTION #2: REVEAL

What “nonspiritual” activity have you found to be quite spiritual after all? What quirky proclivity, out-of-the-way interest or unexpected pursuit refreshes your soul?

It’s not quirky at all, but walking. Just walking. It provides time for prayer. It’s my God time. I get a lot of fun ideas. I know it’s not a new thing — all of our poets talk about taking walks — but I do think living in a car culture, predominantly, we don’t walk as much as we should. I think there is something spiritual about walking and its physicality. It also makes me think about how God elevated us so far above the animal kingdom. Part of that, part of God’s glory upon us, is that we walk upright. It’s something in our image of God that we can walk upright, look ahead and see the horizon. I think that’s representative of God’s nature in us.

QUESTION #3: CONFESS

Every superhero has a weakness; every human, too. We’re just good at faking it. But who are we kidding? We’re all broken and in this thing together. So what’s your kryptonite, and how do you confront its power?

I think mine is envy. That struggle is particularly hard in the world of artists because we don’t work in a cubicle or an office where we can close the door. I work out in the world where I know what other artists are doing. Also, success in the arts is very hard to quantify. Sometimes it takes a long time. So it’s easy to look at other artists and think, Why are they getting this opportunity? or Why are they getting things to break for them when I’ve been doing this longer? I can sink really fast, which can make me bitter toward a friend when I need to be celebrating their success. I may be celebrating on the surface, but down deep, I’m feeling frustrated. It’s not a pleasant feeling at all.

I think many artists struggle with the same thing. I’ve often asked God, “Could you simply change my character? I don’t want to be this way. I want to be someone who’s celebrating with my friends.” The answer I seem to get from the Lord is, “Well, this is going to be an everyday battle. You’re going to have to lean on me every day with this one.” It’s like the thorn in the flesh (see 2 Cor. 12:7). The only way I know how to function in spite of the fact that I can have overwhelming envy is to lean on the Lord and continue to believe that there’s enough for everyone — that God didn’t create this world to have scarcity. Abundance is not the issue. Timing is always the issue. God has said in no uncertain terms, “There is an abundance in my kingdom.” What he doesn’t say is when, where and when. That is up to God alone. He keeps that a secret from us. So I have to trust his timing for things and trust that the abundance is there. My timing might not look like someone else’s timing.

QUESTION #4: FIRE UP

Tell us about your toil. How are you investing your professional time right now? What’s your current obsession? And why should it be ours?

My latest project is an album called “The Rising,” a concept album about the resurrection. Concept albums sound super fancy, but the fact is the songs are quite simple and accessible. Each song on the album offers a different perspective of the Resurrection narrative. The album starts with the prophet Isaiah’s foretelling of our suffering Savior, then moves to Christ in the tomb on Holy Saturday and ends at the Ascension. The songs capture the 40 days of Christ’s resurrected life. I’ve been wanting to write this album forever, but I didn’t think I could. It was only a germ of an idea, but I was super afraid of it. And yet, somehow, my producer and I wrote the songs for “The Rising” over a period of about two years. I’m excited for people to actually hear them now.

One thing I asked myself as I wrote the songs was, “How much do I believe this? I know that Jesus rose from the dead, but have I really taken the time to delve into how truly wild it is that Christians believe this?” Jesus came and said he was the Messiah. I think everyone can agree on that. Even other religions can agree that Jesus was amazing, that he was a prophet. But Christians believe that after his murder, he rose again. There was never a body. I started to delve into the topic more, wanting to learn what historians think about this. Several Roman senators from the first century wrote about early Christians and how wild their beliefs were. I don’t know a lot, so the album helped me crack open this historic event of Christ resurrected. Then again, calling it a historic event doesn’t seem sufficient. It’s not even the right word because there have been many historic events. This was the historic event. We number our years off Christ’s life. In that way, the whole topic of the Resurrection has become an obsession. I think everyday Christians should be talking about it: “Isn’t it crazy that we believe this? How wild! What does it mean that we believe this? Are we able to talk about it with conviction?”

It’s about coming back to Christendom and rediscovering the fundamentals. If we believe that Christ rose from the dead, we can pretty much conquer anything. Theology is baked into literally everything. Theology is also baked into our 24-hour cycle. Every day, when we go to sleep and rise again the next morning, God is preparing us — even in our daily life rhythm — to be born again. You rise again the next morning, resurrected. How much do I long to go to bed at the end of the day? I can’t wait to go to sleep. It’s awesome. It’s my favorite thing. In that longing, God is also kind of knitting into us that death is not something to be afraid of. Death is the portal to that long-awaited sleep, true sleep and rest in him, where we can be born again as Christ was resurrected.

QUESTION #5: BOOST

Whether we’re cashiers or CEOs, contractors or customer service reps, we all need God’s love flowing into us and back out into the world. How does the Holy Spirit invigorate your work? And how do you know it’s God when it happens?

I’m not sure that I know. I think in many ways, I agree with the premise of this question that anything we put our hands to as believers is holy work. I think my trash collector does holy work. In some ways, that’s the holiest work because it, in a way, is like God sanctifying the world. The Holy Spirit doesn’t invigorate our work, but I do believe we’re in the not-quite-yet phase of our earthly lives where working the soil is difficult. We still feel that curse.

We get glimpses of God making it so easy, when we can tell that we’re walking forward only in God’s strength, when all the doors are opening and everything is falling into place. There are other seasons when we’re walking forward while feeling the weight of that curse. The work is hard — very hard. Prayer and wisdom are crucial because something being hard or wearying doesn’t mean you’re not doing what God wants you to be doing. It takes daily wisdom, daily prayer and asking God to correct our course. I often tell him, “This feels hard. So if you’re trying to correct me, let me be correctable. If you’re trying to teach me a lesson about fortitude, help me have fortitude.”

The way Christians talk about work can be funny because some evangelicals think God will open the door or be the wind in their sails. It’s not true. Or rather, a lot of times, that’s not true. It can be discouraging for a believer to face a challenging task or role. Then you wonder, Is God not in this? Did God not bless this? That’s not the right question. To expect work to be hard is OK on this earth.

QUESTION #6: inspire

Scripture and tradition beckon us into the rich and varied habits that open our hearts to the presence of God. So let us in. Which spiritual practice is working best for you in this season?

I think I have an unfair advantage because I love to sing. Singing has always been my fundamental spiritual practice. I sing to God all the time. I sing little phrases or praise songs or lift my voice to him. I don’t mean when I’m singing in front of people, but in private. I sing when I walk.

I have to admit that I’d like to grow more in being in the Scriptures. That has always been the hardest practice for me, sticking with Scripture reading daily. I feel convicted about that. It’s something I have to grow in.

One day, I had an idea on how to fix that. You see, I have an anonymous X account. No one knows it’s me, but I have a highly curated X feed. I’ll open it two or three times a day and scroll. I’ve noticed that the length of X posts is similar to verses. It’s almost as if you’re reading little verses or Proverbs as you scroll through. So I thought, What if I opened Bible.com every time I go to my X account? Clearly, reading something every day is not the issue. I’ve proven I’m able to do that because I open my phone every day. Still, it takes intention to build the spiritual practice of being in the Scriptures regularly. I have felt a little empty in the last few months, and I know that it’s because I’m not in the Scriptures every day. I hate to admit that, but I’m not the only one who finds that the days get full, you get exhausted and the phone is so easy to pick up. And yet the spiritual practice of reading the Scriptures is primary. I need to work on that.

My best friend here in Nashville is starting to do it. She began reading the Bible cover to cover in January with no plan. She tells me, “If I read a paragraph or even just two verses, that’s fine. But it’s every day.” So now we’re here in August, and I had dinner with her last night. Even though I’m around her all the time, it was the first time I really saw that she had changed — and it’s because she’s in the Scriptures every day. Her eyes look different. The tone of her voice is different. Her sense of peace is different. I feel like God is trying to tell me this year, “Mel, what are you doing? You have to feast on my Word every day.”

QUESTION #7: FOCUS

Looking backward, considering the full sweep of your unique faith journey and all you encountered along the way, what top resources stand out to you? What changed reality and changed your heart?

I would be remiss if I didn’t point people to Tim Keller’s catalog. So many people still haven’t discovered him yet. All his sermons are free online. I think the catalog will live far beyond us and impact future generations — like if we had recording equipment when Martin Luther was alive. Tim Keller is truly the first modern preacher of whom we have a full recorded catalog of sermons. He was a once-in-100-years type of theologian. If anyone doesn’t know who he is or has never listened to any of the sermons, go to Gospel in Life. They’re all there, organized by topic and Scripture reference, well archived and indexed. It’s a pretty substantial theological reference for our time.

Also, “The Chosen” has broken through in a wonderful way. I haven’t watched any of season five, but if any of your listeners haven’t taken the time to watch “The Chosen” yet, now’s the time. I think that show is wonderful.

Certain things can be godsends, helping us survive, even thrive, in our fast-paced world. Does technology ever help you this way? Has an app ever boosted your spiritual growth? If so, how?

With my goal to be in the Scriptures every day, I’ve found there are a lot of resources I haven’t taken advantage of yet. There are so many recorded audio Bibles to listen to, which is very new and modern. You can even find dramatized versions. There’s also the Dwell Bible app, which I think is an incredible resource. You can choose the music and the place. Recorded audio Bibles, even in other languages, are breaking into places where people don’t have access to physical Bibles or to a Christian church.

QUESTION #8: dream

God is continually stirring new things in each of us. So give us the scoop! What’s beginning to stir in you but not yet fully awakened? What can we expect from you in the future?

What I have enjoyed the most about “Immanuel,” which is my Christmas project, and “The Rising,” its Easter partner, is researching the Nativity and the Resurrection. In my research, I’ve learned more about what these two events meant for the Jews and the Jewish roots behind them. God designed Jesus’ birth and resurrection to communicate to Jewish people. In reality, this is a story about Jewish people and for Jewish people.

In my “Immanuel” and “The Rising” concerts, I bring that information to Christians. I tell them, for instance, that Christ rose from the dead on a Jewish festival day — the festival of first fruits. That’s why Paul says Jesus was the first fruits, indicating that when he ascended, God would send the Holy Spirit. God sent the Holy Spirit on a day called Pentecost. Well, that was a Jewish festival day called Shavuot, which was the day when the Jews celebrated getting the Mosaic Law. On the day the Jews were celebrating getting the Ten Commandments, God sent his Spirit. This isn’t random. This was thousands of years in the making. Everything was so intentional.

I also am encouraged when Jewish people are randomly in the audience, brought by a friend to a public concert or perhaps visiting a friend’s private event where I’m singing. They’ll say, “Hey, I’m Jewish, but thank you. You’re the first Christian I’ve heard acknowledge that this is a Jewish story.” Of course, that’s not true. Christians acknowledge the Jews all the time. I don’t know what God is doing and how that will unfold, but I have been wanting Christians to know our Jewish history and how it all ties together. I would love to be part of something bigger that does that. With trembling, I move toward it because it’s sacred ground. I’ve approached Jewish rabbis before to ask them to mentor or meet with me. There’s so much hurt between Jews and Christians, and thankfully, there’s been a lot of repair, too. I don’t know what’s going to happen, but New York plays into it because I was in New York for 20 years and got to know the Jewish community very well. There are more Jews in New York than anywhere outside of Tel Aviv. I think connecting with them is essential — I get fired up about it.

Jesus came for everyone. He lived and died and rose again so every person, Jew and Gentile alike, could put their faith in him and be saved. Still, who did he first minister to? Who did he first heal and preach the Good News to? The ones who had originally received the promise and Law — the Jews.

A 2020 Pew Research study indicates that almost 1 in 5 Jews in the U.S. is a Christian. This is cause for celebration, but there are still many more who need salvation. This week, let’s pray for even more to come to Christ and discover the Messiah they’ve been anxiously waiting for.

🎉 Easter Egg Activated!

Melanie Penn