After meeting in college, Shane Barnard and Shane Everett began writing songs and touring the country to lead worship as Shane & Shane. Over the last 15 years, their goal hasn’t changed — to glorify Jesus by writing songs rich with biblical truth and beautiful lyrics.

Through their latest endeavor, The Worship Initiative, Shane and Shane seek to raise up and send out worship leaders who are just as passionate about giving Jesus all the glory. Today, we’re digging deep into the faith that drives these two men, the God-given dreams that give their work meaning and the resources that have changed their lives.

The following is a transcript of a live interview. Responses have been edited and condensed for brevity and clarity.

QUESTION #1: ACQUAINT

There’s much more to food than palate and preference. How does a go-to meal at your favorite hometown restaurant reveal the true you behind the web bio?

Shane Barnard: On almost every date night, you’re going to find my wife and me at the same restaurant. It’s called III Forks Steakhouse. That restaurant says a lot about us in the sense that we just want some quiet in the noise of life. III Forks Steakhouse is a place where the food tastes good and, more than that, where we know we’ll find a table that isn’t surrounded by a ton of noise. If you live in Dallas, you know there are a lot of hip places to eat, and the hipper they are, the noisier they are. When it comes to restaurants, all I want is some solace and quiet. I want to eat at a place where I can hear my wife.

Shane Everett: I enjoy a really good meal, but I also enjoy really good company. So my go-to place could be one of 10 restaurants. Wherever I go, I order way too much food and there’s way too much laughing — I like to celebrate. When we go out to eat, my friends and I just celebrate life. That’s it. When we’re together, we’re celebrating. I like it loud. I like it crowded. I like the noise. (I don’t like to yell over the music, but occasionally I have to.) When I go out to eat with friends, I order for everybody and I order way too much. And for me, it’s about the fact that we’re here together and we’re going to have a good time. So I don’t know what that reveals about me, but I like to laugh and I’ll let you eat. Come one, come all. Let’s go!

QUESTION #2: REVEAL

We’ve all got quirky proclivities and out-of-the-way interests. So what are yours? What so-called "nonspiritual" activities do you love and help you find spiritual renewal?

Shane Everett: I like to be in the woods. I like to see the world wake up. I like to see the sun come up. I like it to be cold. And I meet the Lord there. And then I try to hunt and gather when the sun comes up because a man has to eat. I know I keep coming back to food here, but it’s all about the party. I like the hunt. That’s what I like to do. So I like to go out by myself, watch the sun come up, potentially shoot a deer, get the meat and go home and cook it. That represents the most restful and peaceful moments of my life.

Shane Barnard: This question inspires me because it makes me want to figure out what that activity would be for me. Over the last couple of days, I’ve been building a deck for my house. And there’s something about it that helps me love the Lord. I don’t have many profound words to say about it, but whenever I can wiggle around and create something in a way that exhausts me by the end of the day, it’s good for my soul. I don’t even know at the moment if I’m feeling it, but if I do that without fail, I recognize my heart being softened toward the Lord. Taking the time to go through rigorous activities and create something beautiful helps me. It’s as though it puts fuel on the fire of spiritual longing. It makes me want to apply the same kind of rigor to my spiritual life.

QUESTION #3: CONFESS

Every superhero has a weakness. Every human, too. We're just good at faking it. But who are we kidding? We’re broken and in this thing together. So what’s your kryptonite and how do you hide it?

Shane Everett: I think my kryptonite is a life of ease. I think I’m extremely impatient as a person, and that stems from a lot of control issues. When I can’t control a situation or things don’t go my way, I’m kind of like a child throwing a fit. When things aren’t necessarily easy, I revert to a temper tantrum of sorts. Sometimes that impatience reveals itself, but most of the time it doesn’t. I’m often actively putting to death the deeds of the flesh, so I think I hide that impatience in different ways — mostly by keeping my mouth shut, which is probably a good thing. But occasionally, more often than I would like, it sneaks out.

My flesh always wants to be retired and to be at ease. I don’t know if you’ve ever seen the movie “Tangled,” but my wife and I have a lot of daughters, so we’ve seen it a lot. There’s a scene in “Tangled” where Flynn Rider sings a song called “I’ve Got a Dream.” And in that song, Flynn really nails me because he sings, “I have dreams … They mainly happen somewhere warm and sunny, on an island that I own, tanned and rested and alone, surrounded by enormous piles of money.” And I think, That’s my dream, too! But the Lord continually brings me back to remember that’s not what we’re here for even though that’s what my flesh feels like I’m here for. So my kryptonite is that I want a life of ease, and I want everything to go my way, but it never does. That’s where I’m constantly weakened and meet the Holy Spirit.

Shane Barnard: I’ve worn a particular shirt almost every day for the last six years — and I’m serious when I say almost every day. I would say I wear it five out of every seven days. It’s a Shane & Shane shirt that says “I Shall Not Want” on it, and I wear it for a reason that’s not too far from what Shane shared. I know that all humans are professional “wanters,” that is, professional wanting machines. And I’m not that different. My kryptonite over the years has developed into wanting comfort and indulging in whatever I want to eat or drink. I often search for a functional savior to rescue me from life’s troubles, and that functional savior too often ends up being things of comfort.

QUESTION #4: FIRE UP

Tell us about your toil. How are you investing your professional time right now? What’s your obsession? And why should it be ours?

Shane Barnard: Colossians 3:16 says, “Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly, teaching and admonishing one another in all wisdom, singing psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, with thankfulness in your hearts to God” (ESV). That has become a helpful Scripture verse to identify our mission — that there is a pathway God has created in which, when we get together and sing, it unlocks the Word of Christ dwelling richly in us. That truth fires us up and makes us wonder, How have we been under-utilizing this God-given grace of singing together in a family, in our homes and communities, in our big church buildings, in our small congregations and in our cars?

That verse has inspired us to do a ton of work around singing songs, hymns, and spiritual songs. We just did a record called “Psalms, Hymns, & Spirituals Songs, Vol. 1,” and right now, we’re working on our 40th record of the last seven years, so that would all be under the same mission.

Shane Everett: Shane and I built The Worship Initiative, which is an online training tool for worship leaders and musicians and that also offers content for the masses. In that vein, there are a lot of new things happening. One of them is that we started a record label this year, and we’ve signed three artists so far. Our goal is to add artists who will create original content that’s not directly connected to Shane and me. We don’t want these to be another Shane & Shane record.

We’re doing this because we’re trying to bring up some artists according to the mission Shane mentioned earlier about singing the Word. Colossians 3:16 truly is our mission, and we’re trying to create and disciple some younger folks to carry on that same vision. We want to equip them to set the table for the bride of Christ so God’s people can enjoy and savor the great truths of God. Our heart is that Jesus’ bride would think and meditate on the deep truths of Scripture, that their lives would be changed and as a result, that they would usher Jesus back into the world. We want the bride to bring the Good News to all people, which is what we try to do through song vocationally and through our lives practically on the ground here in Dallas.

But ultimately, we want to duplicate that mission. We want people who come out of our little expression of God’s kingdom here in Dallas to go and make disciples. So that’s what we’re doing, and we’re really pumped about that. I’m hoping that, over the next few years, we’ll see three people equipped — maybe 10 or even 20. Only God knows. You never know who the Lord will bring for us to send out.

One of the reasons we’ve called it The Worship Initiative is because we want to see, by God’s grace and through his Spirit, the Lord initiate worship, beginning with local worship pastors and spreading all over the earth. I love John Piper’s quote that “missions exist because worship doesn’t.” The thought that God would use us as his instruments to create is incredible. He’s the one creating these hearts of worship, the one initiating worship in human hearts. That’s a crazy thought! And it’s a privilege to partner with him in that.

QUESTION #5: BOOST

Cashiers, CEOs, contractors or customer service reps, we all need grace flowing into us and back out into the world. How does the Holy Spirit invigorate your work? And how do you know it's God when it happens?

Shane Barnard: We not only have an amazing team, but we also have an amazing space that looks really cool. My favorite spot in the whole place is the fire escape. That’s where the Lord moves in my heart the most — by far. I know the Holy Spirit is at work when I feel him pointing my heart to Christ, especially through his Word. That idea goes back to Colossians 3:16. In those places with the Lord, I feel like the Word of Christ is dwelling in me richly. It’s deeper than just knowing or memorizing it — it’s dwelling richly in me. Our music is my way of trying to record that moment with Jesus and put it into the airwaves so that someone else can also have that encounter — a true, real, tangible encounter with the Lord that allows the Word of Christ to dwell richly within them. That’s the simplest way the Holy Spirit invigorates my life and work in a given week.

Shane Everett: First of all, I will say the heart is deceitful above all things (see Jeremiah 17:9). So I’m always pretty careful not to say God told me something unless it’s explicit in Scripture. That said, some things are really clear and I know they’re from God. But when things are unclear, I often pray that God would protect me when I’m wrong and grow the things he wants in my life, such as the fruit of the Spirit. As much as I want more of the fruit of the Spirit, it isn’t natural to this fleshly frame.

I feel the same way about being someone who leads teams. I want to lead with patience and forbearance, bearing with others in love. And I want to wrap grace and truth around my neck and bind them there. And I want to be an expression of grace to those around me and, hopefully, a picture of Christ to my friends and coworkers. That’s how I want to lead. But if that happens, it’s the Holy Spirit breathing on it because, apart from him, I truly don’t have those things in my tool kit. I tend to think naturally, and like I said earlier, I’m very impatient and quick to judge. I’m critical. I think my way is the best every time. So my prayer is often “Holy Spirit, do something today in me that would get me out of the way.” I’m not good at that, but that’s my prayer! I also pray that I would be quick to ask for forgiveness when I misstep because I’m not always great at that, either.

Shane Barnard: I think the Spirit works in Shane when he’s partying with somebody at the restaurant and doing a lot of brainstorming, talking about ideas and business, networking, “PRing,” eating, laughing and encouraging others. I think the Spirit is all up in that. You can tell it’s God when things happen that are just unexplainable. When God uses all of those interactions to create literal, tangible plans, we simply sit back and go, “It’s crazy that those things happened because those are miracles in and of themselves.” I think God can do that. The Spirit’s work is obvious when you can walk away and genuinely say, “I had nothing to do with that.”

QUESTION #6: inspire

Scripture and tradition beckon us into the rich and varied actions that open our hearts to the presence of God. So spill it, which spiritual practice is workin' best for you right now?

Shane Barnard: In the last few months, God has really used fasting in my life. As someone prone to crave comfort and prone to indulge, refraining from those things for the chance that God would create in me a deeper hunger for him and his precious Word is a worthy pursuit. And God has been faithful to place in me more of a hunger for him in the last few months.

Shane Everett: Restraint has been a good one for me, too. It’s a kind of fasting. Waking up early has been good. It’s been helpful for me to be at work early in the morning before everybody gets up.

Rising early also gives me time to reflect quietly on the condition of our world. It’s kind of funny how crazy the news has been. It’s like people have lost their minds. But everything going on is just proving Scripture to be true. God said these things were going to happen, and I’m watching them happen in real time. People nowadays are saying black is white, white is black and two plus two equals eight. It’s crazy to watch, but it’s also been so faith-affirming to me. This is biblical stuff going on.

The wisdom of man leads to death — that’s just what it does. The world is wearing out like a garment, which should lead us to pray, “God, help me not to get caught up in this world as my home.” This country can’t save us. Everything in this world will go away eventually. And yet the condition of the world has pushed me deeper into the Scriptures and closer to the heart of God, strengthening my faith that his Word will always prove true. Everything he said is going to happen will happen, and we’re getting to watch some of it in real time right now. The cool thing is, he’s given us the playbook. So when we see crazy things happening, we shouldn’t be surprised. That’s why this season has drawn me more toward the heart of the Lord.

QUESTION #7: FOCUS

Our email subscribers get free ebooks featuring our favorite resources — lots of things that have truly impacted our faith lives. But you know about some really great stuff, too. What are three resources that have impacted you?

Shane Barnard: A book by John Piper called “The Pleasures of God: Meditations on God’s Delight in Being God” hit my life at just the right moment. God used that book to take me to school in a kind yet rigorous way.

Another thing that’s changed the way I walk daily with the Lord is the preaching at Stonegate Church in Midlothian, Texas. A guy named Rodney Hobbs is the lead pastor, but several other people teach as well.

And third, I can accurately say it was a game-changer when I read the book “The Hiding Place” by Corrie Ten Boom. So much so that I named my daughter Corrie. That book really helped me release my grip on this world.

Shane Everett: The first time I read something that transformed the way I thought was a book written by R.C. Sproul titled “Chosen by God.” I had been a believer for about eight minutes when a friend gave me this book. I don’t remember everything in it, but there was a line that transformed my life, my thoughts of Scripture and the lens through which I read Scripture. Sproul was talking about kingship and how, as Americans, we’re taught from such an early age a mantra that says, “Give me liberty or give me death.” I remember realizing just how much my flesh wanted “freedom.” But as Sproul pointed out, true freedom comes from being under the governance of a genuinely benevolent king. That shaped the way I read Scripture so that, early on in my walk with Christ, I believed what the Bible said. Reading that paragraph was probably one of the most transformational moments in my relationship with God and has shaped the last 20 or so years of my life. I still think about that.

Another impactful moment for me was at the Passion Conference in either 1998 or 1999 when I heard John Piper speak. He preached about not wasting your life. It was crazy transformational.

Lastly, I gained a new appreciation for the creativity of God and the creation story when I read “The Magician's Nephew” by C.S. Lewis. It just tore me up. Reading about Aslan singing and creating Narnia — that just floored me. I couldn’t even hold it together. I was reading it to my son, who had fallen asleep, and I was uncontrollably crying. I was just a mess. But something about that picture of a God who sings over us is simply awesome. That book, with its depiction of how creative our God is, was super helpful for me.

We all have things we cling to to survive (or thrive) in tough times. Name one resource you’ve found indispensable in this current season — and tell us what it's done for you.

Shane Everett: I love Logos Bible Software so much. The devotionals. Charles Spurgeon. I just love it all. Morning and evening, it has kept me close to the heart of God.

QUESTION #8: dream

God is continually stirring new things in each of us. So give us the scoop! What’s beginning to stir in you but not yet fully awakened? What can we expect from you in the future?

Shane Barnard: Shane and I are starting a kids brand, and we’re releasing a kids record in January because we believe there’s a bit of a gap in the market — some white space, so to speak. Kids start with Scripture-based, memory-driven music like what you find in “VeggieTales” and then have to jump all the way up to the kind of songs you hear from Hillsong United. So as we pray over our kids, we know we want them to love the Lord with all their hearts. That’s why we’re creating content around the Scriptures in a way that allows them to sing songs and pray at the same time. We care about future generations and want to see every tribe and every tongue worship God. And we want to see our kids genuinely, authentically worship the Lord.

Scripture tells us that, one day, people from all around the earth and from all history will worship God together, completely united in love. Revelation 7:9,10 describes this moment beautifully:

“After this I looked, and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and before the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands. And they cried out in a loud voice: ‘Salvation belongs to our God, who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb’” (NIV).

Worshipping Jesus in heaven will be the most glorious thing we’ll ever do. And in this life, we get a small taste of it when we worship him with other believers. It doesn’t matter if it’s at church or in our car — when we praise God with fellow believers, we experience a glory the world can never take away.

Shane & Shane