Chip Ingram
20 min read ⭑
“One of the greatest testimonies is the supernatural gift of joy, the byproduct of our relationship with Jesus.”
Chip Ingram believes the best way to encounter God and rely on his power is by living on the edge. It’s why he founded Living on the Edge, a teaching and discipleship ministry that equips pastors around the globe. Before working on this ministry full time, Chip was the senior pastor of Venture Christian Church in Los Gatos, California, and led Walk Thru the Bible, a ministry that makes the Bible accessible through books and videos. With decades of experience as a pastor, author and teacher, he’s written over a dozen books, including “The Invisible War,” “Good to Great in God’s Eyes” and his latest, “I Choose Joy.”
Read on for an insightful conversation with Chip about how God transformed him from a “skinny, arrogant teenager” to a man of God who relies on Jesus’ power daily. You’ll also learn his favorite ways to relax and refresh his spirit, the journaling practice that keeps him honest with God, and the relationships and resources that have impacted him most.
The following is a transcript of a live interview. Responses have been edited and condensed for brevity and clarity.
QUESTION #1: ACQUAINT
The meals we enjoy are about so much more than the food we eat. So how does a “go-to” meal at your favorite hometown restaurant reveal the true you behind your web bio?
Like a lot of people, I’d say my favorite meal is when my wife fixes something, and we can gather our kids and grandkids together in northern California, where we live. I love to eat outside and have all four of my grown kids and 12 grandkids there. We usually get to do this at least once around Thanksgiving, depending on the schedule of one of my sons, who lives in Nashville and writes music.
I didn’t grow up as a believer, and my wife didn’t either. We both came from alcoholic homes, so our family today is a blessing from God. We have ups and downs, and we have issues with our kids often. Don’t picture everyone holding hands and singing Kumbaya. But it’s rich, and it’s deep, and it’s beyond anything either of us ever dreamed of growing up.
Other than that, my wife is low key and doesn’t always enjoy sitting down in a formal restaurant, so we just love hanging out and going to TOGO’S. When we park in front of TOGO’S, a little submarine shop, she’ll sit in the car while I go get our sandwiches. We split a drink and put two straws in it. Then we get some baked chips to be a little healthier. Sitting in the car, we’ll eat those sandwiches and pass the drink back and forth. Believe me, it doesn’t cost very much. She’ll sit there and say, “Oh, I just love it when we do this.” I think, Oh, my gosh. She just wants to hang out and be together, not necessarily do anything fancy.
As we sit there, we’ll watch people and reflect on life. That’s the more regular type of hanging out. For a big anniversary, we may go to a nice restaurant, but a low-key night at TOGO’S is what life normally looks like in the Ingram family.
Alex Perez; Unsplash
QUESTION #2: REVEAL
We’ve all got quirky proclivities and out-of-the-way interests. So what are yours? What so-called “nonspiritual” activity do you love engaging in that also helps you find essential spiritual renewal?
This may sound crazy, and I really can’t do it like I used to, but my favorite activity is playing basketball. I was a gym rat growing up. I played seven, eight, nine hours a day. My dream was a college scholarship, and I eventually got that. Then I played overseas, sharing Christ through all the countries in South America and Southeast Asia. I’m a point guard. I’d get up at 5 o’clock in the morning to play on Saturdays with college guys until I was 60 — running the fast break and throwing a lob pass or a bounce pass. Even just the smell of the gym, sitting on the sidelines, asking who’s up next and talking a little trash were enjoyable. After a few months, a guy said, “I heard you speak. Dude, you’re a pastor.” Building friendships and brotherhood brings me delight. It’s creative. It’s active. It’s intense. It has people. There’s a connection with guys. I just sense God’s pleasure. I love it. So sports has always been that for me.
My father was a high-functioning alcoholic and a Marine, so he was very strict. But he was also an unbelievable athlete. We would play together, which made sports our one connection. I’m sure my workaholism came from trying to please him because no matter how well I did, it just wasn’t quite good enough.
When I had a couple of back surgeries, I picked up golf. I don’t like it enough to play alone, but I enjoy playing it with a friend or two and seeing all that green and those blue skies. Although I want to perform well, who cares if I get a double bogey or a triple bogey or a birdie? The point is to look around and think, I’m alive. I’m loved. Who am I to get to enjoy this?
Walks are similar for me. My wife taught me about nature. I was so busy the first 25 years of our marriage. I was so focused on getting stuff done that I didn’t even notice flowers or environments, and I just watched how she soaked up nature. Little by little, I learned to slow down, not feel I had to accomplish something and take a walk. Those who have known me for many years say, “You actually do that, Jeff? What happened to you?” I’ll even stop and maybe take a picture of a flower, a sunrise or a sunset.
My favorite time of every day is early morning. I wake up and go outside to look in awe at the stars. I’ll feed my dog, get a cup of coffee, look at the stars and think, Man, I’m so small. God’s so big. Not many words come after that, but then, like a lot of people, I’ll go and grab my Bible and spend some time with the Lord. I focus on remembering who he really is versus what I’m supposed to read, pray and memorize in Scripture. Those things are really important disciplines, but if you’re not careful, you can develop a transactional relationship with the Lord, which is the farthest thing from what he wants. He wants our hearts.
QUESTION #3: CONFESS
Every superhero has a weakness; every human, too. We’re just good at faking it. But who are we kidding? We’re all broken and in this thing together. So what’s your kryptonite, and how do you confront its power head-on?
I’ve come to realize that everybody — although I used to think it was only me — is desperately insecure. We all pose. We all want to come off as being holier, more loving, more together. Pleasing people has been an Achilles’ heel of mine. It’s been a challenge to get to the point where I truly do things as an offering to God rather than to please or impress people. I was always undersized. In seventh grade, I was 5 feet, 1 inch and a basketball player. I “mushroomed up” to 5 feet, 4 inches as a freshman, and I was the shortest kid in the whole junior high of 700 students. So the desire to prove myself is woven into the fabric of my flesh. I’ve really had to go into training to combat this desire. I literally have written attributes of God and then how he sees me on cards to refute lies that I believe, such as You’re only valued by what you produce. Stop sign, flip it over. You are unconditionally deeply loved by God, apart from anything you’ve ever done. He loved you while you were still a sinner. I’ve got a big stack of cards of all these lies I’ve believed, and then a stop sign that says the truth.
I had sought to renew my mind because I have an addictive personality. I have workaholic tendencies, which I used to use to prove I’m a decent person, that I have value and am worthwhile. My flesh said, “Look at me. I’ve got good grades, have a pretty girlfriend and have a basketball scholarship. I can be successful in the world’s eyes.” I came to Christ because, at 18, I’d set some pretty incredible goals yet felt empty. I’m going to be 32 years old, I told myself. I’ll be a leader in my community. I’ll have a beautiful wife, three kids and an Irish setter, drive two luxury cars, wear $300 suits and be a trial attorney. Go. And right after my friends and I graduated and threw our hats in the air, we decided to sit around in a big circle, passing around a reefer. There were 20 people sitting in an empty apartment, smoking and talking.
The girl next to me, a good friend of mine, said, “You must be really happy.”
I said, “Why do you say that, Jackie?”
“Well, you got a scholarship. You have a pretty girl. You did well in school.”
I had never even heard of the Holy Spirit at that point. All I can tell you is that, at that moment, I felt the emptiest feeling ever. My mind just catapulted. Gosh, if I feel this empty with this, how much more empty am I going to feel when I hit 32? One thing my dad gave me was outrageous confidence and a work ethic. The thought of failing never entered my mind. You just work harder than anybody else. I remember that night, driving home and thinking, If this is what life is all about, and if there’s no God, I’m going to live like hell and die young. So I prayed, “God, I don’t know if you exist, but if you do, reveal yourself in a way that makes sense to me, because life’s a crapshoot if it’s just setting goals and achieving them.”
There’s more to the story, of course, but suffice it to say that he orchestrated some events, and the very next week, I found myself at the Fellowship of Christian Athletes Camp to play basketball. I didn’t really know what the camp was all about, but I met Christ there and was in the Bible.
To give God great credit, I can look back and see incredible progress in the areas of weakness I mentioned before. And yet, I’m 71 years old, and still, those temptations come. I don’t know if we ever graduate, but we make great progress.
QUESTION #4: FIRE UP
Tell us about your toil. How are you investing your professional time right now? What’s your current obsession? And why should it be ours?
I recently made a big decision when I was overseas. You see, I’ve been a pastor for 36 years, and at the time, more and more of my time was going to Walk Thru the Bible, which created videos, books and other resources. I went back to pastoring in Northern California, and I realized that running an organization was great, but I wasn’t teaching the Bible anymore. I had taken a little hiatus from being a pastor for about seven years as I led Walk Thru the Bible. I moved back here, and we said, “Whatever we’ve created, if you want to translate it, translate it. If you want to use it, you can use it — whatever video, whatever audio, whatever book.” To our shock — or at least to mine — 15 years later, we were on these satellites that people were using to view our videos and translate our books.
I went to the Middle East and did an event, and it was obvious God was up to something, but I had no idea. He orchestrates your life. As you may recall, I had two back surgeries, so I was in a lot of pain. Living on the Edge was growing, and I was pastoring Venture Christian Church, which was also really growing. I said, “God, I’m starting to feel like, with all this pain, I’m not doing a very good job with either ministry.” I was at a Blue Med conference with a group of Arab leaders from around the world. My wife went with me, and she said, “Chip, God’s up to something, and you need to pay attention.”
We came up with a transition plan, so for the last six and a half years, I’ve been full time with Living on the Edge, and we’re training hundreds of thousands of pastors in India, Africa, Latin America and all around the world — about 400,000 in the last two and a half years. God has used things that I’ve taught, and I’m helping pastors get healthy and then lead churches that are focused, not on how many people show up, but on how many people leave the church that really love Jesus, love their fellow man and make a difference in meeting the deepest needs in their community. I’m really passionate about helping pastors all around the world truly own in their heart of hearts the Great Commission, which we call the Great Compassion. He’s blown it up with a team of great people and national leaders around the world, so that’s a big focus for me.
My passion has been teaching God’s Word. I’m more excited about teaching God’s Word and seeing its power, especially with what’s happened all around the world the last five to seven years. People are displaying more openness and questioning what’s real and what’s right. I want to teach God’s Word in a really practical, helpful way, speaking to the culture’s most challenging issues.
I recently finished writing a book called “I Choose Joy,” which shows how when you change your perspective, you change your life. We are not victims. This overwhelming anxiety and depression that we see, especially among young people, says that if our circumstances are good and everyone likes us, things are good. One of the greatest testimonies is the supernatural gift of joy, the byproduct of our relationship with Jesus.
For about seven years, I had excruciating pain. I was stuck on my back with ice and epidurals and every treatment possible. They had to fuse bones in my back, and my pain was off the scale. Little by little, I realized I’d really lost my joy, and God allowed me to teach a passage that helped me understand that it’s a choice. That lesson transformed my life and, as a result, became a book, and it seems to be helping a lot of people. I’m really passionate about it, and I just long for people to lay hold of the joy that we could have even in the worst of times.
QUESTION #5: BOOST
Cashiers, CEOs, contractors or customer service reps, we all need grace flowing into us and back out into the world. How does the Holy Spirit invigorate your work? And how do you know it’s God when it happens?
Over time, I’ve developed a pretty significant sense of self-awareness. I think I’m good at some things, and I also think I’ve got some huge liabilities. As a result, I know I can’t accomplish anything supernatural apart from God. For that reason — not in a transactional way but out of great joy — I spend big blocks of time with God and his Word, talking with him. Then, out of that, as I listen, pray, interact and learn from other people, he gives me ideas that can solve problems and brings people into my life to partner with me. When I step out and my insecurities are in the background, it’s so clear God wants to love and help people — people who are in tremendously painful situations.
When I keep taking those steps and watching God do things that I know I couldn’t do in a million years, it floods me with great joy. Also, like many others do, I get tired and worn out sometimes when I bite off more than I can chew, especially when I’m taking risks with my money, my time and my reputation. Living isn’t a warm-up — I get one shot. I’ve got to see needs here, around the world and in the neighborhood and just say to myself, “Are you going to do something about that or not?” Sometimes I bail out, and sometimes I’m chicken, but I get these compulsions from God to trust him, step out and see what happens. I’ve been learning to do more of that, and honestly, when I look in the rear view mirror and think of when I was just a young schoolteacher (a workaholic from alcoholic home with issues who married a woman with even more issues) and see what God has done, there’s really not a lot of “We did this.”
I’ve only been to one class reunion in my life, and it was the 50th-year class reunion. It was such a good testimony. As you know, the Lord has worked in me, and I’ve written a few books, so when I went back, people got to see that. I’ll never forget one guy who looked at me and said, “Is this the same Chip? You were such an arrogant, skinny jerk!”
I said, “I know, I know. But what you need to understand is that God is real. Jesus is real. He actually changes lives and can work through us. Everyone’s a candidate. I just had more needs than most people.”
This is not “hometown boy makes good.” This is “God does miracles — extraordinary things through ordinary people.” That way, he gets the credit.
QUESTION #6: inspire
Scripture and tradition beckon us into the rich and varied habits that open our hearts to the presence of God. So let us in. Which spiritual practice is working best for you in this season?
The one that works best for me is the one I learned when a brand-new Christian and bricklayer with a high school education came to my dorm room and showed me what he called a quiet time. He taught me how to study the Bible, and I’m so glad he did because I ended up becoming a pastor. I went to seminary and learned all kinds of great theology and languages. But the most fundamental thing in my life is getting up every morning with a cup of coffee, meeting with Jesus and reading the Scriptures.
Because I’m a verbal processor, I don’t always know what I think when I’m confused, so I also journal. It helps me be honest. “The Lord is near to all who call on him, to all who call on him in truth” (Ps. 145:18). I used to lie to myself, but when I wrote it down, it was hard to lie. God, I feel envious. Lord, yesterday I was lusting, and I really struggled. God, I’m so happy. I’m so confused. I write raw, and I get it out there. A big thing for me is when I feel struggles, I’ll make a little box in my journal, and I’ll turn it into a prayer request. Lord, I’m having a hard time forgiving so and so. Would you help me? Lord, I’m really afraid about this meeting, and I don’t know where the money’s going to come from to help those pastors in India. Would you provide? I have done it since college, so I’ve got 50, 60, 70 journals up in the top of my closet. When I get really discouraged, I’ll read back a week or two or three. If I get even more discouraged, I’ll read back four months, and there’ll be check marks in those boxes with dates of when the prayer was answered.
At the end of the year, I read through the whole year, and there are always themes. God will say, “Chip, I’ve been speaking to you about this area. Did you notice in February? You didn’t do much with that until later in June and then later in October.” Or “Hey, here’s all the fears you had last January. Look at what I did.”
So to me the most fundamental thing I do is I meet with God. Memorizing Scripture has been one of the pivotal things because my mind can really be messed up. I read a lot, I listen to books. In every season, I’ve tried to find someone who’s closer to where I want to be. I want a marriage like his or a walk with God like his. I keep pursuing them until they’ll meet with me. I’ve got three mentors I’m still connected with. One’s 90, one’s 89, and one’s 94. They’ve so impacted me.
In my journey, I’ve been passionate about the how. I wrote a book called “Good to Great in God’s Eyes: 10 Practices Great Christians Have in Common.” I studied the Old and New Testaments for the book, but it also contains lessons from church history and my relationships. It’s about how to think great thoughts, read great books, pursue great people, pray great prayers and enjoy great moments — all in 10 practices that allow you to experience God’s grace. I’ve been obsessed with asking,“God, how do you change people? Show me.” Then I’ve tried to codify that and pass it on to others.
QUESTION #7: FOCUS
Looking backward, considering the full sweep of your unique faith journey and all you encountered along the way, what top three resources stand out to you? What changed reality and your heart?
First and foremost is A.W. Tozer’s book “The Knowledge of the Holy: The Attributes of God.” I was playing basketball with an Australian team throughout Southeast Asia and the Philippines when a missionary gave me that thin paperback. The chapters are only three to four pages long, and they’re all about who God is. Tozer says, “What comes into our minds when we think about God is the most important thing about us.” I read the chapter on the goodness of God and thought, If this is really what God is like, this will change my whole world. I realized my view of God was so warped. I thought his arms were crossed, toe tapping — a lot like my dad. “You prayed pretty good, but not long enough.” I read a chapter a day of Tozer’s book for 10 years. For the next 10 years, I read it once a month. Since then, I’ve kept it in my briefcase, and I’ve since gone back to it.
The second is a group of books I read while completing my master’s thesis at the University of West Virginia. I had an amazing experience, but I asked some questions that I really wrestled with. In graduate school, a med student on a basketball team in South America introduced me to Francis Schaeffer. I came home and devoured three of his books: “He Is There and He Is Not Silent,” “The God Who Is There” and “Escape from Reason.” He wrote another one called “True Spirituality.” I studied those books, and they became the basis for my master’s thesis on “Is Truth Relative or Not?” Since then, I’ve read every book Schaeffer wrote. He had a powerful view of life, truth and apologetics — if we try to erase truth, here’s what will happen with abortion or euthanasia. His perspectives have been a philosophical bedrock for my life.
Another person who’s greatly influenced me is Ken Boa, who leads Reflections Ministry. Ken’s a unique guy. He was at Case Institute of Technology, then Oxford, and then after that, he got a Th.M. at Dallas and then a doctorate. He was a hippie at Haight-Ashbury and came to know Jesus. He’s super brilliant, but he’s also practical. When he does research, he knows how to take the highfalutin, extreme intellect and explain it in a way that allows you to understand very complex things. I’ve read his works and become friends with him. He’s brilliant yet humble, funny and warm. If Ken Boa has written anything on a topic I’m studying, I want to read it.
Howard Hendricks also had a phenomenal impact on my life. He was a professor at Dallas Theological Seminary. I can’t tell you much about what he said. I just knew that every time I hung out with him, I wanted to know Jesus and follow him and do whatever he wants me to do, no matter what.
There have been many others who have impacted me. I’ve listened to thousands of messages. Bricklayer taught me that the day you are not teachable is the day that you’re done growing. Reading great books, listening to great messages, pursuing great people and hanging around with them has shaped me. I truly do believe more is caught than taught.
We all have things we cling to to survive or even thrive in our fast-paced, techno-driven world. How have you been successful in harnessing technology to aid in your spiritual growth?
I think technology is a double-edged sword. On the one hand, it has been super helpful. Logos, for example, allows you to study the Bible quickly in the original languages and with background and history in ways that are just mind blowing. Or I can say, “Hey, Siri, what’s that passage where David is hiding in a cave?” YouVersion gets people in Bible-reading programs. We also have the Chip Ingram app thanks to technology. It’s everyday teaching and short videos, teaching people how to pray and walk with God.
So I think technology is awesome. But it is a double-edged sword. I don’t open my phone or check my email or any social media whatsoever until after I’ve spent time with God. I don’t want that dominating my thinking. When I get out of the car to do an errand, I try to leave my phone in the car unless there’s something I’m waiting on — just so I’m present. I don’t want to stand in the bank line with 15 other people, and 14 of us are looking at our phones. What if God wants to do something in that bank line? When I get home, I put it near my wallet and keys. Your phone will master you if you let it, and I’m pretty ADD as it is, so I’ve got the Chip Ingram rules that I imperfectly keep. If I feel like I’m not keeping them, then I just turn my phone off for a few days — and it’s okay. No one will die because I turn it off. If my kids really need to get hold of me, they will call Theresa.
Reaching for our phones and looking at them unintentionally and randomly just means we’re being stupid. Research tells us what it does to our brains. It’s like nitroglycerin. You could blow a hole through that big mountain and take a road through. That’s awesome. But if you shake it up, it’ll blow you up. Technology, in the same way, has a lot of great benefits and a lot of disadvantages.
QUESTION #8: dream
God’s continually stirring new things in each of us. So give us the scoop! What’s beginning to stir in you but not yet fully awakened? What can we expect from you in the future?
I’ve been stirred within, asking, “Am I really all in? What is a life worth?” My wife and I support orphans in Zimbabwe. We’ve been there a couple of times, and we get a decent amount of money toward that, along with a lot of other things. At the same time, I’m at this point in my life where I have no kids in college. I live in a decent house and have a decent car, so at what point do I get comfortable and start to lose my edge? When you meet me, will you look back and have one of those “Schindler’s List” moments? Remember when the guy pulls out his golden watch and thinks, What was I thinking? Three more people could be alive, and I’m holding this watch.
I love what I’m doing, but I wonder: if I really believed what I said I believed, what radical thing would I do? What are my values? What is a life worth — a little kid in Zimbabwe? We all reach this place where we must sacrifice, especially when we have a reserve of money. I can be impulsive and very radical — and when that’s faith, that’s great. For instance, we were on radio stations, and they asked, “Hey, we’re going to need a name for this thing, a business name,” and I said, “Living on the Edge,” because that’s where the action is. It’s not until you get to the edge that you really have to trust God.
So I’ve been asking myself lately, “Chip, are you still really living on the edge?” Fear comes with that — fear of how sacrifice would affect my wife and fear of what it would look like to meet Jesus. I don’t want to stop living on the edge, so I’ve been wrestling with that privately, thinking about what that would look like in this season. You never lose when you take a risk for the Lord, but that doesn’t mean it’s not still scary.
We never get too old to take risks for God. At 85, Caleb requested Joshua to give him Hebron, a hill country inhabited by giants (see Josh. 14). Because of his faith, he conquered his portion of the promised land in his old age and left a legacy for his descendants.
Or consider Corrie ten Boom. Most people would consider slowing down in their 50s, but she and her family decided to hide Jews in their home to protect them from Nazis during WWII. She was 52 when she was arrested and thrown into a concentration camp for this act of love. After she was miraculously released, she began preaching the gospel around the globe — even well into her 80s.
Whatever stage of life you’re in, it’s worth asking: Jesus, what risk — big or small — are you asking me to take right now?
Chip Ingram’s passion is to help Christians really live like Christians. As a pastor, author, coach and teacher for 25 years, Chip has helped people around the world break out of spiritual ruts to live out God’s purpose for their lives. He’s the former senior pastor of Venture Christian Church in Silicon Valley, California, and the current CEO and Founder of Living on the Edge, an international teaching and discipleship ministry. Chip and his wife, Theresa, have four children and nine grandchildren.
