Heath Hardesty is passionate about apprenticeship to Jesus and seeing believers integrate his teachings into their lives in transformative ways. He’s the lead pastor of Valley Community Church and a founder of Inklings Coffee & Tea — a cafe committed to meaningful conversations and connection — in downtown Pleasanton, California. Heath’s new book, All Things Together: How Apprenticeship to Jesus is the Way of Flourishing in a Fragmented World, offers readers new vision for spiritual formation that leads to flourishing. Before becoming a pastor on the edge of Silicon Valley, he grew up in a blue-collar home and apprenticed as a plumber in Colorado. He holds degrees in literature, leadership, Biblical studies and theology from the University of Colorado Boulder and Western Seminary in Portland.

In this interview, Heath shares his thoughts on several topics, from the spirituality of poetry to the way the Western church handles lament. He opens up about the struggles and victories of living with Sensory Processing Sensitivity and how it’s simultaneously inspiring and exhausting. He shares some thoughts on prayer and invites us to respond to the conversation God has already graciously started with each of us. Health also reveals several of his favorite resources, from books to podcasts, that inspire hope and vision.

QUESTION #1: ACQUAINT

Food is always about more than food; it’s also about home and people and love. So, how does a go-to meal at your favorite hometown restaurant reveal the true you behind your web bio?

When we first moved from Colorado to the East Bay of California some fifteen years ago, it was a whole new world of wonders for us. Everything felt new and uncharted. The wide diversity of cuisine here was one of those wonders waiting to be explored. I’ve always loved trying new foods. Not long after we arrived, friends took us to Sansar, an Indian restaurant nestled in the heart of downtown Livermore. I didn’t know then that the food we ate that night would become something like a sacrament for me — portals into an awareness of God’s goodness toward us.

To this day, whenever we eat at Sansar, I not only enjoy their incredible chili chicken, coconut milk tikka masala and garlic naan (upgrade to the garlic naan when you go!), but also am carried back to the early days of living and ministering here in California. It is a meal of memories for me. The flavors quickly return me to those days that crackled and hummed with a sense of adventure, real desperation and a radical dependence on God’s daily guidance. It amazes me how fragrance and taste can not only trigger memories but somehow reinsert me back into that place, that sense, that feeling of God leading us into the unknown — to a new home, to a new community and to learning what it meant to pastor a community of people.

QUESTION #2: REVEAL

What “nonspiritual” activity have you found to be quite spiritual, after all? What quirky proclivity, out-of-the-way interest, or unexpected pursuit refreshes your soul?

Give me an early morning with the poet-priest Gerard Manley Hopkins or an afternoon coffee with John Donne or George Herbert. Poetry is one of those places where my soul comes alive. The Metaphysical poets especially — Donne, Herbert, Marvell — take my imagination for a cold plunge. They have a way of wedding intellect and passion, body and soul, sweat and prayer. Their craft is integrative and holistic, which draws me in. They wrote with wit and paradox, comparing lovers to compasses, God’s grace to a pulley, and love to gardening. They knew that to speak of the heavenly and eternal requires images drawn from the ordinary and the earthy.

A stanza of Herbert’s Love (III) has often preached to me more powerfully than countless commentaries. These poets, among many others (I should throw T.S. Eliot in here as well), remind me that faith is not meant to be bytes of data, thin or fragmented, but textured, thick, embodied and fully alive. So I suppose my quirky proclivity is letting the strange, beautiful voices of old poets tutor my soul. They help me see God in unexpected places, know his grace in earthen things, embrace truth in paradox and hold together head and heart.

Also — and it may not be as quirky as hanging out with dead Metaphysical poets — I find renewal on Saturday mornings in making a big breakfast for the family. There is something calming and grounding in working with your hands, preparing ingredients, washing, cooking, chopping and having the kids express their enjoyment in the food.

QUESTION #3: CONFESS

Every superhero has a weakness; every human, too. We’re just good at faking it. But who are we kidding? We’re all broken and in this thing together. So, what’s your kryptonite and how do you confront its power?

When I was young, I thought everyone saw the ocean of motes swirling in beams of light or the soul-sucking flicker rate of certain lightbulbs. Later, I realized that not everyone was seeing the dance of particles or felt drained by the flicker overhead in the meeting room. When I finally heard the term HSP, puzzle pieces locked into place. HSP stands for Highly Sensitive Person. It sounds a bit whiny, honestly. I prefer the more academic term: Sensory Processing Sensitivity.

What’s it like? Imagine you’re an old cathedral with stained glass. Most people hear the outside world as a manageable hum through the stone walls, and light gently streams in through the colored glass. They can open the doors when they want more of the sound and light to pour in. But you — your windows seem larger and everywhere. The light floods in with a kaleidoscopic force from all sides, and the sounds from outside arrive bright and loud and go bouncing and multiplying around the stone echo chamber. And there you are, blinking in the beautiful overwhelm of light and sound. It can be incredibly inspiring…and utterly exhausting. If I had a superpower, this would be it. But it is also my kryptonite.

Research shows those with sensory processing sensitivity have increased activity in brain regions like the insula, mirror neuron system, anterior cingulate cortex and other impressive words well above my paygrade. In short, fMRI scans confirm there’s a neurological reason why certain splays of light or loud social gatherings begin to overwhelm me. It also explains the reason why I never sit at a restaurant facing a sun-lit window behind a friend. The deluge of data makes it hard to stay present in the conversation.

This heightened awareness helps me notice small details, strongly empathize (due to the zealously firing mirror neurons), and integrate sensory input into unified experiences. But it also leaves me inundated, distracted and feeling a bit edgy and foggy. A day full of pastoral meetings ranging from counseling, strategy, HR , funerals, visioneering and elder sessions can leave me far more fractured and drained than I’d like. I often find myself wishing I were more resilient than I am, falling into negative self-talk, and pushing myself to power through rather than rest.

The flip side is that this sensory processing sensitivity helps me gather streams of experience into patterns, see the beauty in the ordinary, notice subtle details and engage people in their emotional states.

QUESTION #4: FIRE UP

Tell us about your toil. How are you investing your professional time right now? What’s your current obsession? And why should it be ours?

Seeing a church community embody a deeply integrated way of life in Christ has been my obsession for some 15 years now. It animates my preaching, teaching, leading and living as an apprentice of Jesus. It’s a joyful toil shaped by questions like these: How can I craft sermons that do more than transfer information — that awaken our imaginations, ignite wonder and reshape our desires to see the beauty of Christ? How do we cultivate worship services that aim at deep transformation, helping people live an embodied life of faith? How do I weave the transcendentals — the good, the beautiful and the true — into everything from the pulpit to staff meetings, from pastoral counseling to community care? In a culture of fragmentation, how can we help people to cultivate coherent and congruent lives in Christ?

A text of Scripture that energizes me is Colossians 1:25–29. Paul speaks of “Christ in you, the hope of glory” and says his toil is to present everyone mature in Christ — struggling with Christ’s own energy powerfully working in him. That’s the fire in my bones: Christ in us, reshaping us into his image, holding the fragments of our lives together in a glorious wholeness, leading us into flourishing, into shalom.

This is why I wrote the book “All Things Together: How Apprenticeship to Jesus is the Way of Flourishing in a Fragmented World.” At the heart of the book is the exploration of what it means to be truly human as image bearers of God and how it is we actually change.

QUESTION #5: BOOST

Whether we’re Cashiers or CEOs, contractors or customer service reps, we all need God’s love flowing into us and back out into the world. How does the Holy Spirit invigorate your work? And how do you know it’s God when it happens?

This is mysterious ground. Grace and sweat somehow meet here. The Spirit invigorates me and my work through his grace. It is unearned and uncontrollable. There is no bottling it, no formula, no “this plus this plus this always equals that.” Yet God meets me in my labors that are done in trust toward him and love toward people, even in my stumbling and imperfect efforts.

Again, I think of Colossians 1:2, where Paul says, “For this I toil, struggling with all his energy that he powerfully works within me.” Paul toils, and it is God’s energy at work within him. God’s grace empowers us to partner with him, and then we labor and train and burn calories and press in with his grace as our moment-by-moment fuel. Dallas Willard captured this synergistic yet God-dependent dynamic well when he said this:

“Grace is God acting in your life to accomplish what you cannot do on your own. It is not opposed to effort. It is opposed to earning. Trying is not training. You don’t just try to run a marathon or fly a 747 — you train. Grace is the fuel, not the excuse.”

How do I know it is God when it happens? Because the process and outcome lead me to become more loving, Christ to be honored, and the Father to be known. The Spirit always spotlights Jesus, and Jesus always reveals the Father. Galatians 5:22,23 should be noted here. Whatever brings about “love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control” shows that God is at work. These things cannot be manufactured or engineered as they are always the fruit of the Spirit.

QUESTION #6: inspire

Scripture and tradition beckon us into the rich and varied habits that open our hearts to the presence of God. So, let us in. Which spiritual practice is working best for you in this season?

Unceasing prayer. In “All Things Together,” after I explore the paradigm of apprenticeship, I lay out seven key practices of being an apprentice to Jesus. Those practices are Scripture Meditation, Unceasing Prayer, Life Together, Unhurried Presence, Joyful Generosity, Compassionate Gentleness and Faithful Witness. The ordering is intentional. Unceasing Prayer comes second, flowing out of Scripture Meditation.

God’s Word has come to us. He has started a conversation with us — first as our Creator, and then again as our Redeemer. It is in his nature to be the origin, the source, the initiator of everything good. It is our nature to respond. All that we do is a response to reality, to what is. The question is not if we will respond, but how we respond to the world around us. So prayer is always a response to a conversation that God has graciously begun. I define Unceasing Prayer as “talking to God first and most about everything.” The God of the universe has started a conversation with us in his love; the only fitting response is to turn to him first and most in all things. It is a staggering gift that the One who holds galaxies together invites us into such intimacy.

When I live in open communion with the Father, Son and Spirit, I find I am more present and attentive. My chaotic thoughts cohere and my perspective right-sizes. I become far less reactive, more patient, more compassionate. But when I sideline prayer, I feel wildly more anxious, frayed and grumbly in soul. Unceasing prayer keeps me grounded, living in the reality of who God is and who I am as his beloved child.

QUESTION #7: FOCUS

Looking backward, considering the full sweep of your unique faith journey and all you encountered along the way, what top three resources stand out to you? What changed reality and changed your heart?

First to mind is “Orthodoxy” by G.K. Chesterton. The title sounds a bit dry and dusty, but it is vibrant with life and electric with wit. The first time I read it, I probably understood a quarter of it, but even so, I knew it had done something to my soul. It lit a fire of longing and wonder, and I knew I would have a long-term relationship with this surprising book. Each year I return to it again to feed on its brilliance, many paradoxes and mirth. It is certainly not an easy read, but it will fill your soul with wonderful things.

Malcolm Guite is someone to get to know. Malcolm is an Anglican poet-priest who weds faith and imagination with rare brilliance. His works (“Sounding the Seasons,” “Parable & Paradox” and “Faith, Hope and Poetry”) reveal how poetry can be sacramental, a window into God’s truth and beauty. With his shock of hair, pipe and tweed jacket, he is a magnetic personality that seems to have Hobbit blood in his veins and to have stumbled out of Middle-earth with a pocketful of sermons and sonnets. He’s a deep well of wisdom who doesn’t argue people into belief so much as beckon them through beauty, rhythm and image.

Eugene Peterson’s pastoral theology series has been a long-time companion for me. These books — “Working the Angles,” “The Contemplative Pastor,” “Five Smooth Stones for Pastoral Work” and “Under the Unpredictable Plant” — have steadied me in my most unsteady seasons of ministry. Peterson refuses to let the pastor be a CEO or religious manager; he prophetically calls the reader back to being a servant and steward of the mysteries of God (1 Cor. 4). Reading him has been like sitting with a wise mentor who lovingly but firmly lifts your eyes back to Jesus and the long, slow faithfulness of shepherding souls. If you are weary or disoriented in ministry, his words will ground you and give you hope.

Certain things can be godsends, helping us survive, even thrive, in our fast-paced world. Does technology ever help you this way? Has an app ever boosted your spiritual growth? If so, how?

I was slow to warm up to podcasts, but now I find them extremely helpful on my journey. They turn commutes into classrooms and workouts into workshops. They even turn an afternoon of pulling weeds into opportunities for discovery and growth. Through podcasts I’ve found fresh voices, new perspectives and rabbit holes of wisdom I would never have stumbled into on my own.

Lately, I have been delighting in my friend Jay Kim’s podcast, “The Digital Examen.” He is a humble, kind and clever host. I am always learning something from him. As a preacher, I love to listen to the conversations on “The Expositor’s Podcast” with Mike Neglia, a friend and first-rate pastor in Cork, Ireland. And I can't leave out “The Rabbit Room” — a creative community and publishing house founded by singer-songwriter and author Andrew Peterson. It is a treasure trove of art, story and song. Loads of things here to get you thinking and your imagination whirring.

Also, I am a big fan of The Bible Project. Dr. Tim Mackie was one of my professors at Western Seminary, and he is as humble and kind as he is brilliant and engaging. Their videos are beautifully crafted, pairing stunning visuals with accessible Biblical theology. It’s a rare blend of artistry and theological depth that helps people to connect the dots of the whole storyline of Scripture. There’s something here for everyone. An easy recommendation.

QUESTION #8: dream

God’s continually stirring new things in each of us. So, give us the scoop! What’s beginning to stir in you but not yet fully awakened? What can we expect from you in the future?

There are stirrings, to be sure. Having just come off the long labor of writing a book and now inhabiting the strange season of publicity and launch, most of my energy has been spent there — alongside the daily work of pastoring and raising four active little kids. Amidst it all, two projects keep surfacing and tugging at my attention.

The first is the topic of lament. The Western church has a confused and strained relationship with Biblical lament. Too often it is silenced or bypassed or treated as a failure of faith. Yet lament is a profoundly faithful practice. I want to explore its shape and place in a wholehearted life, showing how lament and joy are not opposites, but needful companions in the soul learning to trust God.

The second has to do with what Rudolph Otto called “the numinous” in his book, “The Idea of the Holy.” Think of that strange reflex we have to peer through split fingers at dreadful things, half shielding our eyes and half compelled to look. Why do we look at awe-full things with this bizarre posture? And why do lovers talk about “consuming the other” and “wanting to be consumed by the other?” What’s that about? I believe these are symptoms of something wonderful in our souls: humanity’s longing to encounter the Holy. We ache to be haunted, overtaken, overwhelmed and yet to be set free by what is mysterious, magnificent, uncanny and utterly other.

Just think about our cravings for ghost stories and monster movies, for superheroes and strange tales, for religious transcendence, conspiracy theories, and ecstasies of all kinds. These are all echoes of a primary need of the human soul: to live in the presence of a holy and awe-evoking God. I long to explore and to help make sense of this “impulse for the Holy” that is within us.

Heath has given his life to helping believers grow up into maturity under the discipleship of Jesus. Heath says, “Whatever brings about ‘love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control’ shows that God is at work.” An indication that we, as followers of Jesus, are growing into maturity is that our lives are filled with the fruit of the Spirit (Galatians 5:22,23). Can you recognize that God is at work in your life, and in others’ lives, through the fruit that’s produced? Are you growing in love, in patience, in faithfulness? Spend some time asking the Holy Spirit to help reveal the fruit of your life. Thank him for his faithfulness to transform you by his grace, and then ask God to reveal the areas where he desires you to new levels of maturity.

🎉 Easter Egg Activated!

Heath Hardesty