Jennie Allen
17 min read ⭑
“I’ve accepted that, in this life, I will have trouble. I have put my hope in a life to come and not this one. There’s a resolute sobriety to me, and it’s hard to shake me. I’m not fragile anymore. I believe that is the power of God through his Spirit and Word.”
Through all her writing and speaking, Jennie Allen seeks to convey one simple truth: God loves you, sees you and has a part for you to play in his story of the world. Jennie is a Bible teacher, author and founder of IF:Gathering, where women can gather for a night of powerful worship, as well as Gather25, a 25-hour prayer gathering. Her books — “Get Out of Your Head,” “Untangle Your Emotions,” “Find Your People” and more — help readers choose Jesus no matter what’s going on in their lives.
Rapt recently sat down with Jennie to chat about faith, life and how God is moving in her right now. She shared with us how tennis and community rejuvenate her spirit, how she fights not to pass down a mindset of striving to her children and the most impactful resources — from life planning courses to Christian apps. She also pulls back the curtain on how revival is breaking out all over the Earth. You’ll only find these stories here at Rapt.
The following is a transcript of a live interview. Responses have been edited and condensed for brevity and clarity.
QUESTION #1: ACQUAINT
Food is always about more than food; it’s also about home and people and love. So how does a go-to meal at your favorite hometown restaurant reveal the true you behind your web bio?
Mine is Muchacho, a Tex-Mex restaurant in our neighborhood. We know all the waiters. We come and sit at the same table — the biggest table in the restaurant. Our entire family loves this restaurant, which brings me a lot of joy because my family members have really big personalities. There are almost nine of us now because my daughter is pregnant, and my son is about to get married. We’re multiplying fast, so we may outgrow the biggest table at Muchacho.
We order the same thing every time, and the waiters know it. We love them, and they love us. They’re special people, and I’ve gotten to be a part of some of their lives. I go because of the people. So many of us crave a place where everybody knows our names and where we’re seen and known.
This week, I took my youngest son, who started college and hadn’t been to Muchacho in a while. One of the waiters came up and said, “I remember when you were 10 years old.” We’ve lost longevity in our culture. We quit things, and we always want something new. I feel grateful that there’s a place where people have watched my kids grow up, like Alfredo, one of the waiters. People like him are part of our lives, and we want to go there because we’re going to see them.
Allison Saeng; Unsplash+
QUESTION #2: REVEAL
What “nonspiritual” activity have you found to be quite spiritual, after all? What quirky proclivity, out-of-the-way interest or unexpected pursuit refreshes your soul?
I started playing tennis with a friend. We play once a week. The thing is, I have no time for it. This month, it’s falling off the calendar, but we’ve kept it every week otherwise, and I will put it back on my schedule as soon as I can.
I cannot believe how much I love hitting a ball and what that does for me. So much of my life is spent in my head. I’m a writer, a speaker and a leader. I do conversations like this a lot. When I get on that court, it is me against my friend and a ball I just want to crush. For about an hour and a half, I don’t think about anything. You can’t think about anything else.
Ironically, I wrote a book called “Get Out of Your Head.” That is exactly what happens to me on that court. I can’t think about my problems. I can’t think about anything. I can only think about where I need to be to hit the ball. That’s really good for me. People who work with their heads all the time need to play with their hands. I realized I used to try to rest by vegging out, and I didn’t feel rested at all. I felt sad, anxious, depressed. I’ve learned to rest through play. I love to play with friends, and I love to do things that are physical.
Just recently, I went on a trip with our kids, ages 18 to 26. It’s so much work to raise kids, but my children are my best friends, my favorite people on earth. We really like each other. They’re also very competitive. I decided I was going to get really good prizes to make them play all my games during my trip. We did something different every day. We had poker night, pickleball and tennis. I realized that, even though we try to spend time together at my house or a restaurant, we are actually a family that loves to play. I’m learning new ways to play with my family and by myself, and I make sure I get a lot of that in my life.
QUESTION #3: CONFESS
Every superhero has a weakness; every human, too. We’re just good at faking it. But who are we kidding? We’re all broken and in this thing together. So what’s your kryptonite, and how do you confront its power?
First of all, I’m a huge Marvel fan, so I think in this realm a lot. My kryptonite is believing that I can perform and earn acceptance with God and other people. It makes for a tired life. I grew up the firstborn of a really great family who loves God but is highly performance driven. My parents, my siblings, my grandparents and everybody else would say that’s not how they view the world, but I remember sitting down with my dad once and sharing with him how I felt. He apologized, but he didn’t make excuses for it. He didn’t act like it hadn’t happened. He just said, “Let me tell you about my mom and how I grew up.”
That was a life-changing conversation because I realized I had inherited this quality of striving and always feeling like I don’t hit the mark or like I haven’t done enough. One of the fun things about my life is that I’ve actually gotten to hit all the marks I had in my head. That’s a blessing, but not for the reason you may think. It’s because it made me realize there was nothing in it. I remember the day one of my books first hit The New York Times bestseller list and what a big deal it was. It was so awesome. Then the next day, I woke up and was the same person. Everybody had congratulated me, and it was over.
I realized it’s pointless to strive for something in a way that steals all the joy out of work. Ecclesiastes tells us it’s meaningless. I used to think that was depressing. But I had missed the point — because it’s actually super hopeful. Ecclesiastes keeps telling you the purpose — what will bring you joy is being with your people, working with your hands and doing good work. That’s hopeful. I thought, Oh, there’s a lot of meaning and joy in doing good work with and for people you love and not needing to be the best, not needing to win. I think I’m getting there. My counselor, I’m sure, thinks I’ll still be getting there when I’m 80, but I feel closer to being free of that mindset.
These mindsets are often passed down generationally. In your case, it came from your grandmother to your dad, then to you. How have you worked hard to make sure that it’s not getting gift-wrapped and handed down again?
I deeply didn’t want my kids to feel that way, so I fought for that. It was thousands of little choices of what we’re going to value and what we’re not going to value and how we’re going to do it. They still caught it. It’s funny because, in some ways, I raised my kids similarly to how my parents raised me, but in many other ways, I raised them differently. Still, my daughter ended up with the same feeling that I have. I genuinely think it’s contagious. I don’t think it was that I taught her. I think she watched me. She watched me strive, even though I was so proud of her, and there was a lot of grace and freedom in our home to mess up. I remember she came in one time from cross-country and said, “I was 21st,” and she had her arms up in celebration. We all cheered for her — we have no pride about things like that. But she still caught my tendency to strive.
I recognized it in her when she didn’t believe she was ever doing enough or hitting the mark. We all have that in us. We all pick up on how to live and what matters more by watching what people do than by listening to what they tell us. I feel a lot of conviction about that. I need to deal with my demons so that I don’t pass them down. I don’t think there’s another way. You can’t avoid putting pressure on your kids. If you put pressure on yourself, realize that they’re watching you, thinking, Oh, that’s how you live. As parents, we’ve got to be zealous for our freedom and self-awareness so that we pass down healing instead of trauma.
QUESTION #4: FIRE UP
Tell us about your toil. How are you investing your professional time right now? What’s your current obsession? And why should it be ours?
I have a few. One is watching revival break out all over the earth. It’s really fun. I’m speaking in colleges, prisons and churches, and I am seeing a hunger for God like I’ve never seen. That’s consuming me right now. I’m having a ball just following God and doing what he wants me to do.
Secondly, my latest devotional is truly my life’s work. It’s called “When Jesus Is Everything: 365 Days of Faith, Purpose, and Freedom in Christ.” It features every theme, every subject and every lesson I’ve ever learned — it’s all in there somewhere in some form. All of what I know, who I am and how I live is that Jesus became everything for me.
I come back to it every day because he’s not everything for me every day, right? I have to come back again and again. I think that’s why this works so well for a devotional book because it’s short — it’s about coming back again and again. Remember, remember, remember, remember. If you look at my circumstances, you’ll see that they’re better than they’ve ever been in my life. Instead of parenting kids, I’m enjoying my kids. There are so many things that are great about my life right now, yet the heart of my life is harder than it’s ever been. There’s more pressure. There’s more difficulty. There’s more grief and difficulty today than there ever has been, and yet I am more joyful and more free. Why? Because I have accepted that in this world, I will have trouble, and that is a profound reality. I lead a very full life, so every day something is running into me that would have derailed 25-year-old Jennie. But I don’t feel derailed, and I know it is because of the title of this work — and it’s the title of my life.
He has become everything. I have become less — not nothing, because I still show up in rare form all the time — but I’ve become less. He’s become more. I’ve accepted that, in this life, I will have trouble. I have put my hope in a life to come and not this one. There’s a resolute sobriety to me, and it’s hard to shake me. I’m not fragile anymore. I believe that is the power of God through his Spirit and Word. He’s also used time to produce more fruit in me. I’m freer than I’ve ever been, which is such fun. I know it sounds like I’m bragging, but I really am proud of God’s work in me. I’m really grateful. And not proud in a prideful way, but proud in my bones. I’m different. He changed me — it’s all him.
QUESTION #5: BOOST
Whether we’re cashiers or CEOs, contractors or customer service reps, we all need God’s love flowing into us and back out into the world. How does the Holy Spirit invigorate your work? And how do you know it’s God when it happens?
I like the end of that question. I don’t know that it’s God when it happens. I think it’s God. I’ve taken a lot of risks for the kingdom. I’ve put myself out there a lot, and he’s been faithful. I relate to Moses. There have been times when I’m standing there with my arms and my staff lifted, and God has to part the Red Sea, or we’ll die. I’m praying, I understand I’m asking you for the impossible, but I’m standing here with my arms up because I think you can do it. He’s never put me to shame. I’ve put myself to plenty of shame, but he never has. There’ve been times when it feels like he’s about to, but when I look back, I realize he’s always been working. He’s always had a plan.
Several years ago, something shifted. I left Earth and started living in Narnia, and everything wild started to happen. It was everything good and everything dark. The beavers were talking, and the witches showed up — this is the Christian life. I went through the wardrobe one day, and it’s been insanity ever since. I can’t believe my life. I cannot believe the things I see. I cannot believe the things he does. I cannot believe the warfare that comes against us. I cannot believe how dark the darkness is. And I love it. Every Christian needs to live in Narnia. It’s so much better. What I mean by that is that I’m watching two plus two equal millions. I’m doing things I’ve always done, and yet thousands of people are coming to Christ. Two nights ago, for an hour in my home church, young adults confessed witchcraft out loud. They confessed suicidal ideation. They confessed everything under the sun for an hour. I got to say, “God, you’re real. You told me to do this, and you did that. I can’t believe it.”
I was at Southeastern University not long ago. Before this, I didn’t know what SEU was. I heard their worship band on Spotify. They asked me to come speak. Right before I went up to speak, the Holy Spirit said, “Jennie, I’m about to pour out my Spirit on this room so that they’ll pour out my Spirit to the ends of the earth.” That doesn’t happen to me all the time, so I thought, OK, Lord, what do you want me to do? He said, “Change your message.” When I did, confession broke out, and we did a commissioning to the ends of the earth. We did nothing I had originally planned. They had full-on revival for the next 10 days and nights. Later, I found out that 700 or more of them are heading to unreached people groups in the next year. I had no idea.
When you’re walking with God, he just wants you to do what he says. Right now, there are a few new Red Seas in my life, but I’m done losing sleep over it. I’ve seen him come through so many times. If we don’t have it, we don’t need it. If we need it, we’ll have it. I feel like Lucy when she agreed to ride on Aslan’s back. I say to him, “Where are we going today? What are we doing today? I’m in.” It’s such a fun, beautiful life. But it’s also really hard. There’s a lot of darkness that comes for my family and me.
I am at a place where, unless it’s God, I have no appetite for it. This life feels short. It feels like we’ll be home soon. In the meantime, I’m on assignment, and I want to do what he wants me to do. It’s a simple life. It’s seeking first the kingdom of God, and everything else gets added. I know what Jesus meant by that. I’ve lived it.
QUESTION #6: inspire
Scripture and tradition beckon us into the rich and varied habits that open our hearts to the presence of God. So let us in. Which spiritual practice is working best for you in this season?
Community is saving my life. It’s a discipline, and I’ve worked hard at it. Two of my friends and I meet two to three times a week. I know that sounds wild, but that’s what I mean when I say I have worked hard at this and this is a discipline. We are committed to each other. The fruit of that discipline is that I will walk in with anxiety and walk out with freedom almost without fail. We meet that often because unless we are sharing our burdens with each other, we are carrying them alone. The meetings don’t last long. We go in for an hour. Sometimes it’s all night and for fun, but very rarely.
It truly is the discipline of sharing our burdens. It’s better than any counseling I’ve ever gotten. We experience God together. We speak truth to each other. We encourage each other. It reminds me of this: “But exhort one another every day, as long as it is called ‘today,’ that none of you may be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin” (Heb. 3:13, ESV). If we’re not encouraging each other, then we become hardened by sin’s deceitfulness. I’ll walk into our meetings with one perspective on a difficult situation and walk out full, clear, more connected to God, more connected to the truth and able to face whatever I have to face. That’s the one thing over the last few years that has gotten me through.
How does that help me encounter God? Well, in every way. To be seen, to be known, to experience the gospel in real life through breathing humans who are sitting in front of you, being the gospel to you. People who remind you of the truth when you’ve completely forgotten it because you’re spinning and you have so much fear. I can’t tell you how much it impacts my spiritual life. It makes me want silence more. It makes me want time with God more. It also gives me more of an appetite for other spiritual disciplines.
QUESTION #7: FOCUS
Looking backward, considering the full sweep of your unique faith journey and all you encountered along the way, what top three resources stand out to you? What changed reality and changed your heart?
Three things have changed my life in a pretty profound way. One is the Paterson LifePlan process, which is life planning and coaching. It doesn’t have to be Paterson, but it’s important to create a process where you’re intentional about how God has made you, where he has called you to go and what he’s called you to do. It simplified my whole life so that I wasn’t doing a million things. I started focusing on the thing only I could do. It clarified my job title. It brought me joy. I realized how much of my work and life I was living outside of the way I was made to live. When I did that, everything started to work. That was one of the most life-changing things that’s ever happened to me.
One of the other life-changing things I did recently is read the Bible in 30 days. As a student of the Word most of my life, from Awanas to seminary to Bible teacher, I study a lot. Nothing I’ve ever done in the spiritual world has been more transformational than reading it that fast. You lift up above it, and you’re reading three hours a day. My anxiety was zilch that month. My focus and clarity on who God is and what he’s called us to do was so clear. I had a timely word for anyone who needed it at any moment. I was so grounded by spending three hours a day in the Word of God. Reading the story and getting the lift above it instead of being in the minutiae of a verse, you see the God of galaxies weaving together human history and his whole plan — that everything pointed to Jesus. It’s so clear, and yet you’re so mad at God. As people are wiped off the face of the earth, I realize I’m like them, and he killed them. Reading Matthew 11, I got saved again in the Atlanta airport at a Chick-fil-A table at 11 p.m. I’m just weeping, and I’m realizing it’s all true. He loves us.
The third is practical: John Eldredge’s prayers on The Pause App. Get the app and then go to the prayers. They’re a little kooky, but they have changed my life. They are praying against dark cosmic forces in ways that I’d never prayed before. I have seen it work. I know there’s nothing special about his words or prayers; it’s just a variation of the Lord’s Prayer — like “protect us from evil” — but in a lot more words. It’s been transformational to pray those prayers over my kids and over my difficult circumstances. I’ve seen God move through prayer.
Certain things can be godsends, helping us survive, even thrive, in our fast-paced world. Does technology ever help you this way? Has an app ever boosted your spiritual growth? If so, how?
The Pray As You Go app, my Bible app and Lectio 360 — I love them all. Thank God for the Dwell app, too. Even ChatGPT has been great and helpful to me. I know it’s probably going to kill us all, but I really appreciate what I can do as a writer with it. Not because it writes for me, but because it helps me think. I can take a place I’m stuck and say, “Send me 10 Scriptures on this,” or “Summarize this statement in its context.” I feel grateful for technology. I feel spoiled. Paul would have been jealous of all the technology we have. I love using it for good in my life.
Also, there’s The Worship Initiative. Shane and Shane harmonize like no other. I did a devotional with them one day for their app. They have like hundreds of thousands of people who listen every day. They discuss Scripture and sing about the Scriptures. It is one of the most beautiful experiences I’ve ever had. You can download it and listen to it every day.
QUESTION #8: dream
God’s continually stirring new things in each of us. So give us the scoop! What’s beginning to stir in you but not yet fully awakened? What can we expect from you in the future?
I’m living in the middle of so many things that stirred in me in years past. I’m a dreamer. I’m a visionary. With the help of a lot of people around me, I create really cool things. For instance, we gathered the global church together from every continent. We translated the event into about 80 languages, and we’re working on our next one.
But I think I’m living in the repercussions of dreaming and callings. God has me keeping a loose grip on everything, trusting that he’s going to keep showing me what to do and what not to do. What I want more than anything on planet Earth is for every person who wants God to get to God. I feel like so many people want God right now. In almost every room I’m in, I do altar calls and see a mass response. I want to be faithful, to be wherever I’m supposed to be, offer him to everybody who wants him and just do my part. I know I’m not alone in that desire to see many saved.
I don’t really have a new thing right now. I have an old thing that’s burned so deeply into my heart that I’ll do anything for it. I’ll do anything to see people know and experience the love of Jesus.
This desire Jennie has to see people know and experience God isn’t just for pastors and authors and speakers. It’s for you and me.
After Jesus rose from the dead, he gave his disciples a commission: “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age” (Matt. 28:18-20, ESV).
As we go about our day today, may we remember that Jesus has all authority — and he’s given us authority to go and make disciples for him and with him.
Jennie Allen, Bible teacher, author and the visionary behind IF:Gathering, leads a new chapter as the Founder & Visionary of Gather25, a 25-hour global prayer gathering. Her mission is to disciple a generation of Jesus followers to live what they believe. Through her writing and teaching, Jennie seeks to convey a simple yet profound truth: God sees you, loves you and invites you to play your part in his unfolding story. Jennie is a New York Times bestselling author of Untangle Your Emotions, Find Your People and Get Out of Your Head. She lives in Dallas, Texas, with her husband, Zac, and their four children.