Mark DeYmaz
10 min read ⭑
“My current ‘obsession’ is helping leaders get beyond rhetoric to results. It’s one thing to say one’s church loves the city. It’s quite another for the city to love your church.”
Mark DeYmaz is passionate about seeing churches become a true reflection of heaven by bringing together ethnically and economically diverse groups of believers. As a recognized champion of the Multiethnic Church Movement, Mark planted the Mosaic Church of Central Arkansas in 2001 and remains the directional leader. In 2004, he co-founded the Mosaix Global Network, which holds its national conference every three years in Dallas, Texas, and he continues to serve as CEO. Mark, also a thought-provoking writer, has written eight books including his latest, Make Me an Instrument of Your Peace (NavPress, 2026). He is a contributing editor at Outreach magazine and directs the Mosaix Institute at Wheaton College Billy Graham Center.
Mark takes time in this interview to share some of the most meaningful parts of his work — from helping pastors walk in freedom to growing healthy, diverse churches with grounded leaders. He reveals how Seinfeld episodes have become an unexpected spiritual practice and have reminded him that he’s allowed to rest and be human, to laugh and have joy restored. He discusses the books and music that helped shape his faith as a young Christian and reminds us that no matter how difficult our circumstances may be, there is always the promise that joy comes in the morning.
QUESTION #1: ACQUAINT
Food is always about more than food; it's also about home and people and love. So, how does a go-to meal at your favorite hometown restaurant reveal the true you behind your web bio?
One night recently, my wife, Linda, and I went to one of our favorite restaurants in Little Rock. It was a Sunday evening, and we had just come from a local Christian gathering. We were looking forward to a quiet meal and some unhurried time together. Not long after we were seated, a commotion broke out at the table next to us. A man stood up and confronted the couple sitting there, clearly upset about their conversation. He spoke sharply to them and then went back to his table and complained to the manager, asking to be moved. The manager obliged. A few minutes later, he and the woman with him left the restaurant in frustration.
Throughout the exchange, Linda and I could see that the couple beside us was shaken. They looked embarrassed and confused. As it turned out, their “offense” had been talking openly about Jesus. After the man left, we leaned over and encouraged them. We told them they had done nothing wrong and that their conversation was a beautiful witness, not something to be ashamed of. They thanked us, finished their meal and eventually left the restaurant.
When it was time for us to pay, the manager came to us and said, “Your bill's been taken care of.” The couple had quietly paid it for us. It was such a small gesture, yet it felt holy. It was a quiet reminder that kindness multiplies. In moments like that, I’m reminded that God blesses those who identify as peacemakers (Matthew 5:9).
Eva Bronzini; Pexels
QUESTION #2: REVEAL
What “nonspiritual” activity have you found to be quite spiritual, after all? What quirky proclivity, out-of-the-way interest, or unexpected pursuit refreshes your soul?
One “nonspiritual” activity that has surprised me by how spiritual it’s become is watching “Seinfeld” reruns. I know that may sound odd, but hear me out.
Late at night, after the day has finally quieted down, I’ll sit on the couch and let a familiar episode play. I’ve seen them all dozens of times. I know the jokes. I know the rhythms. And maybe that’s part of the gift. There’s no pressure to learn anything new, no agenda, no demand for productivity. Just laughter: simple, predictable and human.
What I’ve come to realize is that those moments do something deeper in me. They slow me down. They help me release the weight of the day. Ministry, leadership and content production all carry a constant sense of responsibility. Watching something light and familiar reminds me that I’m allowed to rest, to be human, to enjoy the ordinary without turning it into a lesson or an outcome.
There’s also something oddly grounding about a show that celebrates the small, mundane details of life. Nothing epic happens. No one saves the world. Yet life unfolds in conversations, misunderstandings and humor. That, too, feels deeply incarnational.
Some nights, laughter becomes prayer — not because it’s profound, but because it restores joy. And joy, I’ve learned, is often where God meets me most quietly.
QUESTION #3: CONFESS
Every superhero has a weakness; every human, too. We’re just good at faking it. But who are we kidding? We’re all broken and in this thing together. So, what’s your kryptonite and how do you confront its power?
I was born in San Francisco in 1961 and raised in Alameda as the only child of a single mother. I was born out of wedlock, which carried real social stigma in those days — for both of us. My mom bore that quietly and courageously. She worked multiple jobs just to keep food on the table and the bills paid, often sacrificing her own comfort so I would never feel deprived.
Even so, I carry both a father wound and a mother wound to this day. At various times in my life, those wounds have been difficult to manage. On occasion, they’ve gotten the best of me. Thankfully, I have a merciful God and a godly wife. In fact, Linda and I have now walked together through nearly forty years of marriage, and along the way we’ve known many seasons of sorrow. Both individually and together, we’ve endured deep emotional pain on nearly every front. Like so many others, we’ve faced personal, marital, parental, familial, relational, financial and vocational hardships — often in ways that were raw, humbling, and, at times, deeply regrettable. More than once, joy felt completely out of reach.
I’m not suggesting we’re role models. But time and again, we’ve found ourselves sustained by the same Voice that once invited Abram to lift his eyes and look toward the future with hope. We’ve learned, like the psalmist, that “weeping may last for the night, but a shout of joy comes in the morning” (Psalm 30:5, NASB). And by God’s grace, that promise has proven true in our lives.
QUESTION #4: FIRE UP
Tell us about your toil. How are you investing your professional time right now? What’s your current obsession? And why should it be ours?
Most of my professional energy right now is focused on helping leaders plant, build and mature churches that are multiethnic and economically diverse, culturally intelligent, socially just and financially sustainable. I spend much of my time walking alongside pastors who want their churches to reflect that God's love for all people (not just some people) comes on earth as it is in heaven — in order to advance a credible witness of the gospel.
My current “obsession” is helping leaders get beyond rhetoric to results. It’s one thing to say one’s church loves the city. It’s quite another for the city to love your church. I’m deeply motivated by Jesus’ words in Matthew 5:16 — “let them see your good works” — not as a slogan, but as a way of life meant to be visible in neighborhoods, institutions and everyday relationships.
My work with pastors is often more practical than it is spiritual. I spend a lot of time helping leaders manage expectations, resist comparison and quiet the voices of self-doubt and inadequacy that so many carry. Many pastors are exhausted not because they lack faith, but because they’re living under invisible pressure — to grow faster, look more successful and measure themselves against everyone else. Helping them find freedom from that has become one of the most meaningful parts of my work.
Why should this matter to you? Because healthy churches don’t happen by accident. They grow out of leaders who are clear about their calling, grounded in reality, and chasing 21st-century metrics.
QUESTION #5: BOOST
Whether we’re Cashiers or CEOs, contractors or customer service reps, we all need God's love flowing into us and back out into the world. How does the Holy Spirit invigorate your work? And how do you know it’s God when it happens?
For my wife and me, the Holy Spirit often shows up not as a sudden lightning bolt, but as a steady and gentle guide. In the late 1990s, I was part of a thriving church of five thousand people. One day, it struck me that almost everyone in the sanctuary was white, while most of the janitors were Black. I remember quietly wondering why.
Several years later, Linda and I were prayerfully discerning our next steps. One day, she picked up a random magazine in an airport. Later in flight, she opened and found an article about the integration of Little Rock Central High in 1957. Right then, she began to cry, sensing the Holy Spirit saying, “I’m calling you and Mark to a work of reconciliation.”
Around the same time, I was in final interviews for another church position. Everything pointed toward an offer. But in the last meeting, the Holy Spirit prompted me to ask one question. I refused in the moment to do so. I knew it could blow it — a positive process that had led to this moment of my hire. After first resisting, I finally found the courage to ask, “Do you need a leader or a manager?” Three days later, the pastor told me, “Mark, you’re clearly a leader. You need to stay in Little Rock and plant the church he’s envisioned.”
That very day, Linda and I sat under a tree in our backyard and committed ourselves to the journey, standing on 1 Thessalonians 5:24 — “Faithful is he who calls you, and he will do it.”
QUESTION #6: inspire
Scripture and tradition beckon us into the rich and varied habits that open our hearts to the presence of God. So, let us in. Which spiritual practice is working best for you in this season?
Here’s the honest truth: my calling and my work are deeply intertwined, and in this season of life, that’s where I most consistently encounter God. I don’t experience them as competing forces. When I’m coaching a pastor, writing, thinking about how churches can become more just, more compassionate and more reflective of God’s kingdom, I often sense the nearness of God. It’s where my faith feels most alive, most attentive, most dependent.
In these divisive times, that has taken very concrete shape. Much of my prayer life right now is wrapped around identifying with Christ as a peacemaker and leaning into the Prayer of St. Francis. I’m certainly not God’s gift to peacemaking, but I’m committed to growing toward the vision of that anonymous author — to becoming someone through whom love, pardon, faith and hope can quietly flow.
Beyond that, one of the most meaningful practices in my life is surprisingly simple. I was never a coffee drinker until the pandemic, when Linda made me a cup she thought I’d like. It turns out it was mostly cream and sweetener. Real coffee lovers would laugh! But it became a ritual. Most mornings now, we sit in our favorite chairs with our mugs, talking about the things of God, our family and whatever other joys or worries are on our hearts.
Those moments are unhurried, unimpressive and holy. As Tori Amos sings, “Gold Dust.”
QUESTION #7: FOCUS
Looking backward, considering the full sweep of your unique faith journey and all you encountered along the way, what top three resources stand out to you? What changed reality and changed your heart?
When I became a fully devoted follower of Christ during my sophomore year as a college baseball player, it wasn’t a sermon that first shaped me. It was music. The band 2nd Chapter of Acts — songs like “Make My Life a Prayer to You,” “To Obey Is Better Than Sacrifice” and “Create in Me a Clean Heart” — formed my early theology. I would lie on my dorm room floor, headphones on, asking God to make those lyrics true in me. Those songs taught me surrender before I knew how to articulate it.
Around the same time, the bold, prophetic edge of Steve Camp challenged my complacency, while Steven Taylor — especially “Meltdown (At Madame Tussaud’s)” — pushed me to think critically about cultural Christianity. Their lyrics gave me categories for conviction, courage and authenticity.
Years later, a book changed me in a quieter but deeper way: “The Return of the Prodigal Son” by Henri Nouwen. Nouwen’s reflection on Rembrandt’s painting reshaped my understanding of grace. I saw myself not just as the prodigal, but as the older brother — and eventually as one invited to become like the father: open-armed, merciful, forgiving. That book softened me.
Looking back, those resources did more than inform me. They formed me. They helped move faith from my head to my heart. And they continue to remind me what a good and patient God we serve.
Certain things can be godsends, helping us survive, even thrive, in our fast-paced world. Does technology ever help you this way? Has an app ever boosted your spiritual growth? If so, how?
I’m probably an outlier here. I don’t rely much on apps, podcasts or digital devotionals. I know that may sound unspiritual in a tech-driven age, but it’s simply true. Most of my spiritual growth has never come through screens. It has come through people.
What consistently nourishes my faith is being in close relationship with Christ-centered men and women who are faithful, courageous and sacrificial. That happens most naturally in my local church community, where I’m known and challenged and where I can’t hide behind a platform or a persona. It also happens through long-standing friendships with pastors, leaders and colleagues I’ve built over more than forty years of ministry.
Technology does play a supporting role, though. Tools like Zoom have made it possible for us to stay connected with friends and leaders across the country and around the world. Through virtual meetings, I’m able to listen, encourage, be encouraged and stay spiritually sharp even when we’re miles apart.
But the real gift isn’t the platform. It’s the presence. It’s honest conversation, shared burdens and encouraging friendship.
I’ve learned that no app can replace that. For me, growth happens best in community, where faith is practiced out loud, questions are welcomed and grace is lived, not downloaded.
QUESTION #8: dream
God’s continually stirring new things in each of us. So, give us the scoop! What’s beginning to stir in you but not yet fully awakened? What can we expect from you in the future?
One of the clearest things stirring in me right now is the launch of a new church-planting network focused intentionally and exclusively on multiethnic church planting, growth and development. To my knowledge, it’s the first of its kind in the United States. I believe God is inviting me and others I know to help shape a generation of leaders who don’t just talk about reconciliation, but actually build churches where it is lived.
With that in mind this spring, I’m traveling to Spain to connect with intercultural church-planting catalysts throughout Europe with the hope of together fanning the flames of this movement globally over the next seven to ten years. It feels like standing at the edge of something much bigger than any one person or organization, and I’m trusting God to meet us there.
At the same time, I’m leaning more intentionally into emerging technology, especially artificial intelligence, guided by the wisdom of my friend, Dr. Christopher Benek, lead pastor at First Presbyterian in Miami. For ten years, we’ve been interacting on the topic, possibilities and the future — to leverage it as a tool to expand capacity, sharpen thinking and expand the Kingdom of God.
I’m excited. I’m also aware of my limitations. I am 64 years of age, but I feel like I’m 32! I’ve learned that God often does his best work in the tension of such things, and I’m trusting him to continue using me until my time on earth is through.
What does it look like for a church to love their city? What does it look like for a city to love the church? These are questions Mark challenges us to consider as he reminds us of what Jesus says in Matthew 5:16, “In the same way, let your light shine before others, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your Father in heaven.” Mark reminds us that this verse isn’t meant to be a slogan, but “a way of life meant to be visible in neighborhoods, institutions, and everyday relationships.” Think for a minute about how the city you live in might see your local church. Spend some time asking God to give you his love for the people in your city, his creative ideas for tangibly loving those people and his resources to practically meet the needs of people who are hungry, both physically and spiritually.
A thought-leading writer and recognized champion of the Multiethnic Church Movement, Mark DeYmaz planted the Mosaic Church of Central Arkansas in 2001 where he remains the directional leader. In 2004, he co-founded the Mosaix Global Network and today serves as its directional leader. Mark has written eight books including his latest, Make Me an Instrument of Your Peace. Other works include The Coming Revolution in Church Economics and Building a Healthy Multi-Ethnic Church. He is a contributing editor at Outreach magazine, and directs the Mosaix Institute at Wheaton College Billy Graham Center.